The economy

[Dr. No]

I guess we all have seen the news of all the lenders going under and know about the threat of the economy slipping under.

My question, well what I wonder is, could this be what some of what the movie studios saw coming?
They haev been moving movies around like mad, delaying the releases.


Also could there be potentially be riots if by some outside chance Barack loses?

I'm just wondering how all of this might add up

[Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry]

The Flandry nuclear bunker is stocked up with tinned food and supplies.

[FormerBondFan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_ ... L2lAV34T0D

McCain, Obama trade heated jabs over the economy

By TERENCE HUNT and GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writers 53 minutes ago

GOLDEN, Colo. - John McCain and Barack Obama traded increasingly barbed insults along with prescriptions for the ailing economy Tuesday as financial fears shoved aside lipstick on pigs and every other political issue in a blink with just weeks left in the long presidential campaign.

An ad by Democrat Obama sneered: "How can John McCain fix our economy if he doesn't understand it's broken?"

Getting even more personal, Republican McCain retorted: "Sen. Obama saw an economic crisis, and he's found a political opportunity. My friends, this is not a time for political opportunism; this is a time for leadership."

McCain commented as he and running mate Sarah Palin addressed a rally late Tuesday in Vienna, Ohio.

The verbal dueling showed the importance both candidates put on the issue of the economy as the continuing financial meltdown on Wall Street has driven all other issues out of the news. Both campaigns now believe the candidate who manages to wrest control of the issue and gain voters' confidence could well be the next president.

Earlier in the day, McCain called for a crisis commission, while Obama laughed that off as "the oldest Washington stunt in the book."

"This isn't 9/11," Obama told a noisy crowd of more than 2,000 at the Colorado School of Mines, dismissing the idea of a need for study. "We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out. I'll provide it. John McCain won't."

McCain, campaigning in Florida, promised reforms, too, to expose and end the "reckless conduct, corruption and unbridled greed" that he said had caused the financial crisis on Wall Street."

The bewildering turmoil has shaken Americans' confidence, erased hundreds of billions of paper wealth for U.S. stockholders and led McCain and Obama to forsake other controversies and scramble back to the economy as the primary concern of voters.

The presidential campaign had taken an odd turn to side issues — Alaska's "Bridge to Nowhere" and moose-hunting, Obama's crack about lipstick on a pig — after McCain's surprise pick of Alaska Gov. Palin as his running mate. There was a fascination with huge crowds attracted by Palin. But the collapse and merger of some of Wall Street's legendary companies forced a return to reality seven weeks before the election.

What do the voters think?

McCain and Obama now are trusted equally on the economy, with 34 percent of voters naming each as the candidate who would do a better job dealing with what is easily the country's top worry, according to an Associated Press-GfK Poll conducted last week. Previously, Obama had had a solid advantage on the issue.

McCain wasn't sticking to economics on Tuesday. His comments grew more personal as the day wore on.

He criticized the Illinois senator for taking donations from executives of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — the mortgage giants taken over by the government last week — and for putting former Fannie Mae CEO Jim Johnson in charge of his vice presidential search. The Arizona senator also chastised Obama for missing an economic stimulus vote, even though McCain himself missed a vote — and the possibility of breaking a Senate tie — a day earlier on a broader package. Obama voted for that package.

As for Wall Street and the nation's housing woes, Obama called the crisis "the most serious financial situation in generations."

"Since this turmoil began over a year ago," the Illinois senator said, "the housing market has all but collapsed. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to be effectively taken over by the government. Three of America's five largest investment banks failed or have been sold off in distress. Yesterday, Wall Street suffered its worst losses since just after 9/11."

He said McCain and President Bush subscribe to the same approach: "support ideological policies that made the crisis more likely, do nothing as the crisis hits and then scramble as the whole thing collapses." Obama said he has supported legislation to stop mortgage transactions that promote fraud, risk or abuse and has urged the administration to bring all parties together to find a solution to the subprime mortgage meltdown.

McCain declared on Monday that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong." Then, after Obama accused him of being out of touch, he conceded the country was in an economic crisis but still said the fundamental strength of the American worker remained strong.

On Tuesday, McCain struck a populist chord against Wall Street greed. He called for a commission to probe the root causes of the country's financial mess — such as the high-level panel that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. And he reiterated that no more taxpayer money should be used to rescue private institutions such as the mega-insurer AIG.

Hours later, he used a rally before several thousand in Tampa to promise that "if Gov. Palin and I are elected in 49 days we're not going to waste a moment in changing the way Washington does business."

Obama said the nation did not need another commission, like the one proposed by McCain.

"History shows us that there's no substitute for presidential leadership in times of economic crisis," he said. "FDR and Harry Truman didn't put their heads in the sand and hand accountability over to a commission. Bill Clinton didn't put off hard choices. They led and that's what I will do."

___

Terence Hunt reported with the Obama campaign in Colorado, Johnson reported with the McCain campaign in Ohio and Florida.

[Dr. No]

The Flandry nuclear bunker is stocked up with tinned food and supplies.

Make sure to keep a can opener on hand.

Dear jesus I can beleiev what is happening!

85 billion dollar bailout of AGI!

what the hell is going on? Is there anyone who is solvent in this country?

[Kristatos]

By TERENCE HUNT and GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writers 53 minutes ago

This story is a conspiracy by former Bond directors. Terence Hunt is obviously a portmanteau of Terence Young and Peter Hunt, who are writing from beyond the grave, while Glen Johnson is an anagram of "John Glen's on". And if you read the story backwards, it says "SPECTRE is screwing up the economy" in Sanskrit.

Hey, it makes as much sense as that "9/11 truth" bollocks.

[Dr. No]

By TERENCE HUNT and GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writers 53 minutes ago

This story is a conspiracy by former Bond directors. Terence Hunt is obviously a portmanteau of Terence Young and Peter Hunt, who are writing from beyond the grave, while Glen Johnson is an anagram of "John Glen's on". And if you read the story backwards, it says "SPECTRE is screwing up the economy" in Sanskrit.

Hey, it makes as much sense as that "9/11 truth" bollocks.

True dat.

this is maddening. Is there anybody in banking that doesn't need rescuing?

[Goldeneye]

Tumultuous U.S. Economy Begins to Affect Major League Sports
AP


NEW YORK — The tumult in the U.S. economy finally is starting to affect an industry that has enjoyed years of growth: major league sports.

The NBA is laying off employees. Major League Baseball attendance has dropped after four straight record years. The NFL says revenue is under pressure.

While the symptoms are relatively mild so far, the latest developments say something about how far financial woe has spread in a nation where the appetite for sports seems ever-expanding.

"I used to come to maybe eight or 10 games a year, but this year it was only four games on three trips," said Jack Maloney, a Cleveland Indians fan who watched his team play at home against Kansas City last weekend. "The price of tickets has gone up, you've got to pay to park, the price of food at the ballpark is ridiculous, and so are the gas prices. I'm glad we filled up Friday. It was $3.67 then. This morning, it was $3.99. That's just stupid."

NBA commissioner David Stern said his league intends to trim at least 50 of the 800 jobs in its U.S. work force, more than 6 percent, and says the NBA has shuttered its league office in Los Angeles.

"Our revenue targets are still being met," Stern said. "But we know that there's going to be enormous pressure on those targets in the next year or two, based on the country's deteriorating economic circumstances.

"I think it's fair to say that a sporting event may well define disposable income," he said.

Make no mistake — America's major leagues still take in billions of dollars, with individual team incomes varying through a sliding equation that includes tickets, luxury suites, national and local broadcasting, sponsorship, advertising, concessions, parking and licensing.

But executives throughout sports are taking a new look at expenses, fearing the boom years may be over in a business that once seemed recession-proof.

Last winter and spring, coming off baseball's first season topping $6 billion in revenue, commissioner Bud Selig was saying the sport could break 80 million in attendance for the first time. Indeed, during the opening half of the season, MLB was at times slightly ahead of last year's pace.

Heading into the final two weeks of the regular season, however, average attendance was 32,553, down about 1 percent from last year's record of 32,785.

"I think 80 million was a realistic expectation based on the prior four years," said Bob DuPuy, baseball's chief operating officer. "But to draw 79 million or 78 million or 79.5 million or 80 million, wherever we end up exactly is absolutely remarkable given the economy."

Yet in Kansas City, where the Royals beat the Seattle Mariners before an announced crowd of 10,307 on Monday night, the team offered a retro pricing deal: $3 for upper deck seats and $5 for parking. Even that was too much for some fans who came to see the two last-place clubs.

Ed Stoll, a retiree from Blue Springs, Mo., brought his three granddaughters to the game.

"Price has restricted us. Every once in a while we get free tickets — that's why we're here tonight. I really can't afford to come very often," he said. "We have to control what we spend and don't usually buy souvenirs — we're not into them that much."

While season tickets sold before mid-2008 already are locked in, there are indications teams may face a tougher time selling seats for 2009 and beyond.

"Anything outside of rent, taxes, fuel, food, shelter, after that everything falls into the category of discretionary spending," said Bernard Baumohl, chief global economist of The Economic Outlook Group. "We may not see any significant rebound in consumer spending, especially discretionary, disposable spending, until 2010."

Stern anticipates the sale of full season tickets and equivalents will be down about 1 percent to 2 percent this year following the three highest-drawing seasons in league history. The NBA's average of 17,395 last season trailed only 2006-07 (17,757) and 2005-06 (17,558).

The NFL has set regular-season attendance records for five straight years, drawing 17.3 million fans last season and averaging 67,738. But darker times may be ahead, at least when it comes to the bottom line.

In May, the league decided to opt out of its labor contract in 2011, as opposed to 2013. At the time, the owners noted they were paying players $4.5 billion this year, just under 60 percent of total revenue. Salaries generally lag behind the economy by a couple of years.

"We recognize that it doesn't work long term for us," NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said of the labor pact at the time.

More recently, Goodell wrote in a memo to his staff that costs are rising and league revenues are under pressure. He urged staff to control costs and identify new sources of revenue.

The NHL's story is slightly different from the other leagues, because of a lockout that wiped out its 2004-05 season. It's been busy rebuilding its revenue and fan base, so it's harder to compare its recent seasons to those of the other leagues. Ticket sales are up 3.6 percent from last year.

"Our results on season tickets are actually a good story to date," deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. "Perhaps the economy has kept those numbers from being bigger."

Across the board, tickets prices have risen steadily.

Baseball's average increased 10 percent this year to $25.43 and the NFL's went up 8 percent to $72.20, according to the Team Marketing Report. The NBA's average was $48.83 last season and the NHL's $48.72, TMR said.

And teams still are content charging as much as they think the market will bear.

The best seats at Citi Field, the New York Mets' ballpark opening in 2009, will cost an average of $495. That's a New York bargain, believe it or not. The top tickets at new Yankee Stadium are $2,500.

In New Jersey, the Jets and Giants are combining to build a stadium that will open in 2010 and is estimated to cost $1.6 billion. To help pay for it, they plan to charge up to $25,000 for personal seat licenses that only give an individual a right to buy the tickets.

Some in the stands have had enough, especially in poorer, small markets.

"We used to come to maybe 10 games a year," said Paul Jackson, another Indians fan who attended Sunday's game in Cleveland with his wife Pat and 12-year-old son, Shawn.

"This year, it is this game and opening day. We live in Minerva, and it's 150 miles round trip. That's 25 bucks for gas in addition to the price of tickets and food," he said. "We were coming to the Browns game anyway tonight, so figured we'd double up and watch both games. We packed a lunch, and we'll eat in the parking lot between games."

Declines in ticket sales have started for some teams. After reaching 3 million in attendance for eight straight seasons, the San Francisco Giants will fall short. Is it due to the slowdown, the departure of home run king Barry Bonds or the Giants' losing record?

Outgoing owner Peter Magowan insists "this wasn't because of the economy." Indeed, there is typically an intersection between on-field performance and ticket sales. Bringing baseball back to Washington hasn't meant a packed house for the Nationals, who could lose more than 100 games this seasons and are averaging 29,500 in the first season of a ballpark that has a capacity of 41,188.

A weak economy doesn't help, and the slowdown is felt beyond the turnstile.

Team coverage in many newspapers has been cut back, with media budgets battered by advertising and readership declines. That translates into a decreased presence in print for teams.

At the same time, all the leagues expect a decrease in car ads — long a major sponsor — forcing clubs and networks to search for other advertisers.

For Major League Baseball, the sale of licensed goods — such as jerseys and caps — is flat when compared with last year. It would be down factoring out the All-Star game at Yankee Stadium, which produced extra revenue.

Kevin Kolb, a Royals fan from Pleasant Valley, Mo., complained that souvenirs and concessions were too expensive. "It costs $50 for us to buy hots, Cokes and nachos," said Kolb, who had his son and daughter in tow.

To ensure stability, NBA commissioner Stern recommended more than a year ago to his owners that they try to lock in long-term TV contracts with regional sports networks.

There's an odd logic to his advice. If fewer fans buy tickets for games, more may watch on TV — and higher ratings could mean more revenue for regional sports networks, many of which are partially controlled by team owners.

So, in the end, teams could win by losing.

[Dr. No]

Itis going to be close to 1 trillion dollars of bail outs. I can't tell you how upsetting this is to me.

I guess the bail out is better than the market bottoming out, but there is no guarantee it wouldn't bottom out any way.

I remember my history classes where the the immediate reaction by some of the rich barons was to bail out certain industries and stocks buy using their own money to flood the market in an attempt to stabilize it. It didn't work then. It has a better chance of working now, but it still concerns me.

[Kristatos]

I remember my history classes where the the immediate reaction by some of the rich barons was to bail out certain industries and stocks buy using their own money to flood the market in an attempt to stabilize it. It didn't work then. It has a better chance of working now, but it still concerns me.

But it's not their money they're using, it's ours.

[Dr. No]

I remember my history classes where the the immediate reaction by some of the rich barons was to bail out certain industries and stocks buy using their own money to flood the market in an attempt to stabilize it. It didn't work then. It has a better chance of working now, but it still concerns me.

But it's not their money they're using, it's ours.

Makes it easier for the politicians to commit to it and for the corporations to accept ti.
What I would liek to see if these d**n tax breaks ad loopholes closed. The oil companies get millions of dollaers in incentives for doing nothing.
Enron through manipulation their holdings, got millions of dollars back as a rebate from the IRS!

There is a slim chance the government could come out a head, if the value stabilizes and the markets take off, but if that doesn't happen then it is going to pull the economy down further.

[Dr. No]

This is getting to be a bigger mess by the day. They say if we do nothing the entire economy collapses, but is he do something we go so far in to debt we may never see the end of it which could hurt the economy.

The only thing worse than doing nothing is these clowns playing politics. and pretending they are not.

Mcain suspends his campaign to do what? The democrats try to say they had a deal before he gets theire , when they never had one to begin with. They they blame mccain for being they were days earlier they asked for his help. talk is going around that Barack screwed things up at the whitehouse talks and the DNC is terrified it might get out. Even if it is true Bush wouldn't release the tapes, you know they had to have taped it, they tape everything. Its not how bush plays ball. HeE may mislead you or lie about somthing but not deliberately do something partisan when he sees his role as none partisan.

it is getting wore by the day I almost wish we had a way around these idiots, the idiots who are supposed to be representing us and not their damned political party!

[Dr. No]

It get worse day by day.

Here is an interesting idea. Sort of crazy but it would get the economy moving again.

The idea is instead of nailing out wallstreet divide the billions and give it to the American citizens. The loans get paid off and the economy goes in to overdrive. The government would of course tax it but ti would matter because it is huge windfall.

Like I said it is a bit crazy.

Well I'm off now to fidn a cardboard box big enough for my family to live in

[stockslivevan]

Interesting idea, I doubt this guy would be happy about it.

[Dr. No]

yes that guy is always happy.

well the bailout worked wonders, market fell be low 10,000 today

[Goldeneye]

Oct 8, 9:38 AM

By JOE BEL BRUNO

(AP) A television screen at the New York Stock Exchange shows the decision of the Federal Reserve to...
Full Image

NEW YORK (AP) - Wall Street is down again after a rate cut by the Federal Reserve and other central banks failed to calm investors worried about stagnant credit markets.

While investors had sought the one-half point cut by the Fed, they realized that a rate reduction won't help make credit easier for businesses and consumers to get anytime soon. The credit markets aren't showing any immediate signs of relaxing.

The Dow Jones industrials, already down 875 points this week, are off 72 at the 9,374 level, but have regained ground from the first minutes of trading. All of the major indexes, including the Standard & Poor's 500 index and the Nasdaq composite index, are down about 1 percent.

[James]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ernational

'The man who saved the world banking system'

LONDON -- Two weeks ago, the best thing that was said about British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was that he might be persuaded to resign before his tepid and inarticulate leadership brought the Labour Party to a decimating defeat at the hands of the Tories.

Today, he will arrive at a financial-crisis summit in Brussels as the most influential leader in the world, and possibly the most admired.

The French newspaper Le Monde called the normally morose Scot - who has suddenly taken up the habit of smiling - a "European superhero," its conservative competitor Figaro called him the world's greatest financial mind, and Swedish media have taken to calling him "Flash Gordon."

His bailout of the British banking system through a taxpayer buyout of major banks has been imitated in the past 48 hours by a dozen other countries, including the United States, which invested $250-billion (U.S.) in banks yesterday. While taxpayers may be less happy when the full cost of these bailouts hits their tax bills, and it is not yet fully certain that the strategy has worked, most observers agree he has staved off a full-blown depression.

Mr. Brown, a man whose obsessive devotion to the minutiae of financial management has previously been a source of ridicule, is getting all the credit.

At a briefing yesterday he said he wants to take this triumph to a new stage today, by rebuilding the entire world economic order with the launch of new institutions to replace those that have regulated world finance since the Bretton Woods conference launched the modern financial system in 1944.

"We are in the first financial crisis of the new global age," he said. "We need to recognize that if risks are globalized, then responsibilities have to be globalized as well. ... What we are asking is that we set up a new international financial architecture for the global age."

He proposed not only major reforms to the International Monetary Fund and the G7 group of industrialized nations so they can respond better to global capital flows and crises, but also the creation of a whole new set of institutions and regulations designed to replace national finance-regulation bodies in dozens of countries with a fully international system.

Last week, such an idea would have been laughable, especially from Gordon Brown, a left-wing leader in a world dominated by conservatives. But analysts feel that he has become so influential this week that he may well end up accomplishing at least part of his huge goal.

"I myself find it kind of jaw-dropping: Gordon Brown has become the man who saved the world banking system, and now he might become the man who redesigned the international financial system," said Will Hutton, an economist whose work has influenced Mr. Brown's Labour Party since 1997. "Who would have dreamed of it?"

Mr. Brown also won begrudging praise yesterday from David Cameron, the leader of the opposition Conservatives, who said he fully supported the bailout program, and from U.S. President George W. Bush, whose officials have eagerly adopted it. And Paul Krugman, the U.S. academic and writer who was awarded the Nobel Prize in economics this week, has devoted himself to lavish praise of Mr. Brown's new ideas.

Mr. Brown has been proposing major reforms to the world's finance institutions for years. But now he appears to have the world's ear. While the meetings today and tomorrow will be between leaders of European Union countries, he said yesterday that he wants to propose institutions above the authority of Brussels, with the support of the United States, China, Russia and other economic powers. "It is not European but global measures that are needed," he said.

At home, there are signs that Mr. Brown's new status may be short-lived. While he has pulled his party to only 10 points behind the Tories in polls - the best figures in a year - there are looming signs of hard times in Britain. House prices in London are down 25 per cent over last year, inflation rose to a 16-year high of 5.2 per cent last month, and unemployment is growing fast.

For the moment, he appeared happy to bask in this surprising reversal of fortunes. Reporters yesterday repeatedly asked him how he was handling his new hero status, an amazing change from two weeks ago, when one press briefing opened with a British reporter asking him why he hadn't simply resigned.

"I find it amazing that people are suddenly so interested in my personal fate," he said, after laughing awkwardly. "I think you should look at what they were saying about me four weeks ago."

The Brown Doctrine

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown outlined a five-point program yesterday to reform the world's financial system. He hopes the principles will be the basis of a new set of global institutions to replace those that have governed international finance since 1944. This will be proposed in Brussels today and tomorrow.

Transparency

Banks must fully disclose key information globally, not just nationally. Accounting standards will have to become international, and they must extend to the credit-insurance market, which has been heavily criticized.

Integrity

A worldwide effort is needed to end conflicts of interest, such as those involving rating agencies that receive fees from the firms they rate. Worldwide limits also need to be placed on pay and bonuses in banks, so that they reflect actual results and are no longer able to distort business practices.

Responsibility

All members of company boards must hold full responsibility for the company's risk, and must not be able to walk away from their institutions. This will require international supervision.

Tighter regulation

To create "a system with solvency and liquidity," there must be "adequate protection through the economic cycle" to prevent speculators from distorting markets when they are rising and short positions from having undue impacts when markets are falling.

New institutions

The new system of banking co-operation will need "a new international financial architecture for the Global Age." New institutions will provide "an effective global early warning system for the world economy, to alert us to the risks at hand," and "globally accepted and supervised standards of regulation" and the cross-border supervision of global corporations Doug Saunders

[Dr. No]

latest headline Bailout to swell debt, hit taxpayers

We are so screwed

Anyone remember Farscape and the We are so screwed trilogy? .... No?.. humm, Thought not Oh well


We don't need presidential election any more we just turned over control of the county to the FED

Our new leaders


IMHO Paulson looks like he is missing a monocle