The Anti-Bond

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The Anti-Bond

Post by Commander 0077 »

Good morning, fellow Double-Os. It's a pleasure to be on this site, where the more traditional Bond (books and films) is supported. It's tops that 2 007 is the year of its launching. Since I haven't seen CR (will one day see it on DVD; looking forward to seeing just a 'good action film' but not a Bond film), I'll keep my comments general.

In a perfect Bond world, I would have imagined the great majority of Bond fans would boo what is obvious, that CR introduces the Anti-Bond. But Blofeld has pulled off his greatest project, and many eyes have been blinded. For example, in the olden days an Anti-pope would be one who would be both against and in lieu of the 'accepted pope'. An Anti-Christ would not be just against, but a substitute.

So, taking the second definition of Anti-Bond as substitute for the real thing: (off the top of my head)

1. James Bond is no longer a commander in the Royal Navy. This is a huge insult. This fact alone is heavy evidence for the Anti-Bond. This is equal to replacing Superman's S with a Z.
2. The Anti-Bond doesn't have the sense of fun of 007, either book or films. The film Bond is well known to have this trait. I've read all the books, and with the exception of CR, Bond exhibits an increasing humour, much of it self-aimed. In Live and Let Die, Bond and Leiter are practically a comedy team. By the time of the Blofeld Trilogy, he is nearly the Connery-Bond. TB: Felix: "I'm strictly a chocolate sailor." Bond, after meeting Domino, says to himself with a sardonic smile: "Bitch." OHMSS: Bond sees Irma Bunt's waddle: "Hm! Irma no so la douce!" The scene with Griffon Or is a bone-cracker. In YOLT, Bond and Tiger (and Bond and Dikko) are a laff-a-minute.
3. Bond is a creature of habit. He loves his traditions. To have Bond say about his beloved (film) martini, "Do I look like I give a d**n?" (or whatever is the exact quote) is equal to Bond's stripping of his RNVR CMG.
Every Bond trait is fair game. He can then be red-headed, born in Transylvania, educated in Berkeley as a metallurgist, never was in the secret service, never was in the military, he never had a friend named Felix except his cat. SPECTRE is his dry cleaner. A female can portray him.

Like the frog swimming in the simmering water, we aren't supposed to notice that Bond is now from the army SAS, that he doesn't know enough to choose his own dinner clothes, that he doesn't approach the 'very good-looking' description of his creator, that he seems to bleed all over the place (oops, since I haven't seen CR, I should stop :shock:

PPK: I have heard the theme song. A Bond song should have a beautiful melody; this is subjective so I shall keep my peace on this.

In brief, Bond IMO should be bigger than life, an entertainment. There are many action stars who are 'gritty' and 'realistic' but there is only one James Bond. Why dilute the very character of Bond? If Bond is portrayed truly as realistic, he would be wounded very badly in the first mission, and killed in the second. After a punch-up his face would be disfigured for a month.

I am not fooled, Mr. Anti-Bond. But I commend you, SPECTRE, my compliments! :twisted:
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Post by Tubes »

Fair enough. But CR is as close as we've gotten to a Fleming Bond since the early Connery films.

I hope that, when you watch CR on DVD, that you realize that the subtle humor moments in the novels have been kept. This isn't Dalton's straight faced Bond, nor is it Moore's comedian, but it's still genuinly funny at times.

And, if you cannot accept CR as a Bond movie, hey, at least enjoy it as a movie, straight up.
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Re: The Anti-Bond

Post by The Sweeney »

zillionairepoet wrote: The Anti-Bond doesn't have the sense of fun of 007, either book or films. The film Bond is well known to have this trait. I've read all the books, and with the exception of CR, Bond exhibits an increasing humour, much of it self-aimed.
I think you stated the obvious right there. CR the novel was not humourous.

And shouldn't you actually see the film first before passing judgement...?
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Post by James »

There were jokes in Casino Royale? I must have missed them.
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Post by The Sweeney »

James wrote:There were jokes in Casino Royale? I must have missed them.
I don't recall any `knock knock' jokes or `mother-in-law' jokes, but the script did have some black humour moments. Guess it depends on whether you found them funny or not.
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Post by carl stromberg »

I'm not sure I found the swiss chocolate gag funny. Craig's mugging after the line was awful, wasn't it?

The "perfect arse" line was pure Moore/Brosnan - without Moore and Brosnan's comedy skills! If Brosnan had had that line people ould be moaning.

Dalton was better at comedy, in my opinion.
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Post by Skywalker »

Tubes wrote:Fair enough. But CR is as close as we've gotten to a Fleming Bond since the early Connery films.

I hope that, when you watch CR on DVD, that you realize that the subtle humor moments in the novels have been kept. This isn't Dalton's straight faced Bond, nor is it Moore's comedian, but it's still genuinly funny at times.

And, if you cannot accept CR as a Bond movie, hey, at least enjoy it as a movie, straight up.
I was really disappointed after watching CR. By far the worst Bond film of all time coupled with the most raelistic Terminator performance since T2. (I discount T3).
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Post by The Sweeney »

Skywalker wrote:
Tubes wrote:Fair enough. But CR is as close as we've gotten to a Fleming Bond since the early Connery films.

I hope that, when you watch CR on DVD, that you realize that the subtle humor moments in the novels have been kept. This isn't Dalton's straight faced Bond, nor is it Moore's comedian, but it's still genuinly funny at times.

And, if you cannot accept CR as a Bond movie, hey, at least enjoy it as a movie, straight up.
I was really disappointed after watching CR. By far the worst Bond film of all time coupled with the most raelistic Terminator performance since T2. (I discount T3).
If you seriously think DAD and AVTAK are far superior films to CR, then I guess we'll end the conversation right there, as your taste in films is highly offensive (IMO... :wink: ).
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Post by Harvey Wallbanger »

CR was average. Not great.
DAD had a powerful beginning and the best torture scene in any Bond film.
This would have been the perfect time to bring in the Bond trying to kill M then earn redemption (the TMWGG story).

The parts of DAD that went stupid were not Brosnan’s doing, just like the stupid parts of CR are not DC’s doing.
CR is an average action movie more or less. It didn’t feel like Bond movie to some a average Bond movie is preferable to a average action. That’s why they’re Bond fans.
:)
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Post by Skywalker »

The Sweeney wrote:
Skywalker wrote:
Tubes wrote:Fair enough. But CR is as close as we've gotten to a Fleming Bond since the early Connery films.

I hope that, when you watch CR on DVD, that you realize that the subtle humor moments in the novels have been kept. This isn't Dalton's straight faced Bond, nor is it Moore's comedian, but it's still genuinly funny at times.

And, if you cannot accept CR as a Bond movie, hey, at least enjoy it as a movie, straight up.
I was really disappointed after watching CR. By far the worst Bond film of all time coupled with the most raelistic Terminator performance since T2. (I discount T3).
If you seriously think DAD and AVTAK are far superior films to CR, then I guess we'll end the conversation right there, as your taste in films is highly offensive (IMO... :wink: ).
Superior Bond films 'YES'
Superior films 'No'. :wink:
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Post by Jack Wade »

Anti-Bond? LOL. Truly pathetic.

I guess making a faithful adaptation of Fleming's Bond means anti-Bond.

I guess being in love with Pierce Brosnan's Bond full of senseless action, no plot, invisible cars, cringe-worthy delivery of one-liners, and bad acting then you would hate the new Bond.
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Post by carl stromberg »

I guess making a faithful adaptation of Fleming's Bond means anti-Bond.
It could have been more "faithful" couldn't it. Go on, as a Fleming ner, you would love to see a proper strippeddown Bond, not the bland blockbuster clone that CR was?
I guess being in love with Pierce Brosnan's Bond full of senseless action, no plot, invisible cars, cringe-worthy delivery of one-liners, and bad acting then you would hate the new Bond.
I thought Craig's one-liners and his delivery were awful. I enjoyed Brosnan's jokes - although I wasn;t totally convinced by Purvis and Wade; it all depends oin if you find Brosnan charming.

Casino Royale had, in my opinion, senseless action and bad acting by the bucketfull. Don't you agree? Daniel Craig did have the best lip-quivering since that woman who played Sue Ellen in Dallas though.... :lol:
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Post by Jack Wade »

carl stromberg wrote:It could have been more "faithful" couldn't it. Go on, as a Fleming ner, you would love to see a proper strippeddown Bond, not the bland blockbuster clone that CR was?
WTF? I'm not sure what bland blockbusters CR was cloning. When I think of bland blockbusters, I don't think of movies that are character driven. I think of movies like TND and DAD that are based on action and no plot. CR was all plot and character with a couple action pieces in order to keep the action element there.

I really don't know how you can consider CR a bland boxoffice clone.
carl stromberg wrote:I thought Craig's one-liners and his delivery were awful. I enjoyed Brosnan's jokes - although I wasn;t totally convinced by Purvis and Wade; it all depends oin if you find Brosnan charming.
Wow. Well, that's your opinion, but Craig's delivery was just as great, if not better, than Brosnan's. Brosnan's were just nauseating. Take for instance the line "it seems we've developed a certain attachment to each other" in TND. That was terrible. Contrast that to DC's one-liners in CR... Craig's dark wit blows the terrible delivery Brosnan had. I don't know, maybe if P&W wrote some better lines for Brosnan it might not have come off so badly.
carl stromberg wrote:Casino Royale had, in my opinion, senseless action and bad acting by the bucketfull. Don't you agree? Daniel Craig did have the best lip-quivering since that woman who played Sue Ellen in Dallas though.... :lol:
I don't know of any senseless action. A chase scene on a construction site isn't really senseless. If there were an overload of CGI and if it made no sense whatsoever in comparison to the plot then maybe it'd be senseless. Same with Miami. As for the acting, it doesn't get much better in a Bond movie. Bond movies have never had great acting until now. I mean, didn't the BAFTAs nominate Craig for Best Actor?
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Post by Harvey Wallbanger »

Most of the CR's chases were mindless. All the construction site showed was Craig could do physical stunts. How pointless was the collapsing building in Vienna. Miami airport was right out of Die Hard 2. RIP-OFF :?
Since DC didn't win a BAFTA does it not only mean the
Forest Whitaker is not only the better actor but that better Bond as well?
:wink:
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Post by The Sweeney »

Harvey Wallbanger wrote:Most of the CR's chases were mindless. All the construction site showed was Craig could do physical stunts. How pointless was the collapsing building in Vienna. Miami airport was right out of Die Hard 2. RIP-OFF :?
Since DC didn't win a BAFTA does it not only mean the
Forest Whitaker is not only the better actor but that better Bond as well?
:wink:
Surely it would just mean Whitaker pulled off a better performance, wouldn't it?

And out of interest, how many other Bond actors have been nominated prior to Craig?
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Post by Skywalker »

The Sweeney wrote:
Harvey Wallbanger wrote:Most of the CR's chases were mindless. All the construction site showed was Craig could do physical stunts. How pointless was the collapsing building in Vienna. Miami airport was right out of Die Hard 2. RIP-OFF :?
Since DC didn't win a BAFTA does it not only mean the
Forest Whitaker is not only the better actor but that better Bond as well?
:wink:
Surely it would just mean Whitaker pulled off a better performance, wouldn't it?

And out of interest, how many other Bond actors have been nominated prior to Craig?
IMO DC is a great actor. He is arguably the best actor to play James Bond. He was nominated for his acting skill in CR. I just don't feel the nomination reflects the Bond character as well as the other actors before him. :wink:
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Post by The Sweeney »

Skywalker wrote:
The Sweeney wrote:
Harvey Wallbanger wrote:Most of the CR's chases were mindless. All the construction site showed was Craig could do physical stunts. How pointless was the collapsing building in Vienna. Miami airport was right out of Die Hard 2. RIP-OFF :?
Since DC didn't win a BAFTA does it not only mean the
Forest Whitaker is not only the better actor but that better Bond as well?
:wink:
Surely it would just mean Whitaker pulled off a better performance, wouldn't it?

And out of interest, how many other Bond actors have been nominated prior to Craig?
IMO DC is a great actor. He is arguably the best actor to play James Bond. He was nominated for his acting skill in CR. I just don't feel the nomination reflects the Bond character as well as the other actors before him. :wink:
Fair enough. 8)
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Post by Jack Wade »

Harvey Wallbanger wrote:Most of the CR's chases were mindless. All the construction site showed was Craig could do physical stunts. How pointless was the collapsing building in Vienna. Miami airport was right out of Die Hard 2. RIP-OFF :?
Since DC didn't win a BAFTA does it not only mean the
Forest Whitaker is not only the better actor but that better Bond as well?
:wink:
Actually the construction site showed off parkour and the fact that we don't need a car chase to make an effective action sequence.

I can see how the Miami Airport scene can be compared in the light of Die Hard, but why in the hell would Eon resort to ripping of Die Hard? If anything, Die Hard is a tasteless ripoff of Bond.

Forrest Whitaker might be a better actor than Craig. That doesn't mean Craig isn't a superb actor that played a huge role in resurrecting the series from creative disaster.
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The Anti-Bond

Post by Commander 0077 »

I'd like to focus on one point, and would like your opinions:

The changing of Bond from a navy commander to army.
IMO, (in my previous post) this is a huge dealbreaker for me. But does it bother others as much?
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Re: The Anti-Bond

Post by Jack Wade »

zillionairepoet wrote:I'd like to focus on one point, and would like your opinions:

The changing of Bond from a navy commander to army.
IMO, (in my previous post) this is a huge dealbreaker for me. But does it bother others as much?
Is that Craig's fault? That's the fault of whoever made the bio on the website.
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