The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[Omega]

To say it maybe better I think the story is the problem and the old bond elements the scapegoat but only for a select confused few


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[The Sweeney]

To say it maybe better I think the story is the problem and the old bond elements the scapegoat but only for a select confused few


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The negative ones I'm reading are in the minority too. Overall there seems to be more positive reviews than negative. Not to the level of SF, but this is not another QoS in terms of bad reviews.

NME seem to sum it up -

How much you enjoy this may depend on how you feel about Bond in general. If you miss the old days, with the world in elaborate peril and everything done with a big wink, this is a solid example of that. If you preferred the lower stakes but tighter storytelling of the new era, Spectre may feel like your dad’s Bond.

Screen International also touch on it -

James Bond rediscovers an old nemesis in SPECTRE and, in the process, falls back on the formula to deliver a slightly flat, old-fashioned 007 by the numbers.

Most of the reviews I am reading seem to be along these lines, even the positive ones. I haven't read any bad ones yet that are slating it purely for the story alone. The more I read about SPECTRE, the more it sounds like a Bond film trying to go back to its old movie formula.

The first few negative ones on RT (there aren't that many) also label the old formula criticism home -

Daniel Craig is back as super spy James Bond in Spectre, but the 007 franchise is back to its old, cliched ways

A spectre is haunting Bond movies. Ever since the Berlin Wall fell, 007 has had a bit of an identity crisis: caught between cold assassin and cosy quip merchant, between serious espionage and groan-nuendo misogyny, between eras and attitudes.

Daniel Craig, the first post-9/11 Bond, had appeared to lean towards the former, bringing a newfound seriousness and muscularity to a role which had previously dealt primarily in raised eyebrows. Which makes Spectre a bit of an odd entry: it’s a film which tries to have its Bond cake and eat it too.

Under the eye of returning director Sam Mendes, Spectre starts with one of the strongest pre-credits sequences in the entire franchise: an audacious tracking shot through the Mexican Day of the Dead festival, climaxing in a spectacular helicopter somersault. But beyond that, Mendes feels obliged to embrace the laziest of the series’ tropes.

Austin Powers-grade cliches abound. Here is the villain openly inviting Bond to his evil lair for some reason! Here is the villain monologuing his evil plan in detail! Here is the villain attempting to kill Bond in the most elaborate manner possible, instead of just shooting him in the face!

In a sense, this is all fine. If you’re after a familiar Bond, you’ll find everything in order here. Spectre will make for fine Bank Holiday telly. But Craig’s Bond always seemed to aim higher than that. After 53 years and 24 films, is it too much to, ahem, exSpectre bit more?

There were hints, in Skyfall, that the grand Daniel Craig era of the stripped-back, gritty Bond was over. That film reintroduced classic Bond elements like the Aston Martin DB5, a male M and Moneypenny, gradually shaking off many of the lifts from Bourne and its ilk. Now in Spectre, we've moved right past that Connery tribute and into an even broader tone that harks back louder to the Seventies films, making this an awkward marriage of Craig and Moore.

Perhaps it’s unavoidable since there have been so many double-O outings before this one, but “Spectre” frequently feels as though it is picking over the corpses of the films that came before. The Day of the Dead opener, for example, evokes the New Orleans funeral parade at the start of “Live And Let Die.” And a needlessly complicated brain-drilling contraption that Bond finds himself strapped into is every bit as inefficient as Auric Goldfinger’s laser castration device.

By the time Bond invites himself to Oberhauser's headquarters and discovers something close to those legendary Ken Adam bases, with uniformed waiters incogruously offering champagne on the terrace and black-clad henchmen on patrol, it's as if Austin Powers never happened. Bond even gets knocked out with a blow to the back of the head like Moore always did. Despite the admittedly fun action sequences, shot fluidly and with some clever choreography, it all slows to a crawl instead of speeding to a finish, and at two and a half hours there's just too much of everything going on. It's never Quantum-levels of disappointing, but it all just feels overcooked. Time to once again rein in Bond's endless boom-and-bust cycle between reality to crazy fantasy, or next time we'll be back to pigeons doing double-takes and crocodile-shaped diving suits.

[Omega]

AH you ninja edit it I was wondering why I was quoting the wrong posts

Oliver Lyttelton | The Playlist: But the massive, movie-breaking problem? Story. Plot holes might be forgivable in a Bond movie (even ones of the gaping, you-could-drive-a-truck-through-it size we get here), but they stand out more when you’re mistaking mystery for actual story, with Bond on a quest that jumps from set piece to set piece rather than building up to something more compelling. By the time Waltz enters the game late in the third act (spoiler: he’s giving the same performance he always does), you keep waiting for some kind of unexpected twist, reversal, or even a moment that makes you feel any kind of suspense. But while press has been asked to keep the film’s surprises under wraps ahead of release, the biggest surprise to me, was that there weren’t any. In general, this feels like a film patched together out of endless hastily-drafted script rewrites rather than a cohesive vision.

JORDAN ROYCE THURSDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2015: Sam Smith gives you an excuse to nod off for a three minute power nap. SPECTRE is an integrated remake of Thunderball and You Only Live Twice. The story itself is flimsy and gossamer thin; merely acting as a loose framework to provide an ending to the previous three instalments. This never comes across as anything other than forced, especially with regards to Skyfall; there had been literally no foreshadowing of this unconvincing connection. Even the title sequence gets in on the act, and unlike the Lazenby handover in On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, the flashback imagery serves no real purpose. Despite this urgency to resolve everything neatly, it is handled with little or no explanation, which renders the initial build-up in the first half rather pointless. What actually is SPECTRE? Were Quantum part of SPECTRE (bad guys fronting for slightly worse bad guys)? And most importantly, is SPECTRE even an acronym anymore? No answers are to be found here. It’s all atmospheric intrigue with no payoff. Similarly gossamer thin is the treatment of the two leading ladies, Monica Belluci and Léa Seydoux. Belluci is in, bedded, and gone within a few short scenes, and Seydoux just does not cut it as Mr White’s daughter Dr. Madeleine Swann. The reason revealed for everything that has happened in Bond’s life since Casino Royale is downright laughable, and actually harms the credibility of the previous three movies. Whereas SPECTRE feels the most like a traditional Bond movie, is occasionally awesome to watch, but simply doesn’t feel authentic, and is further sabotaged by a needless, silly, and damaging backstory. Which is a shame, because with this amount of zeitgeist, so much more could have been achieved here than making you want to finally pony up and buy those Connery Bonds on Blu-ray.

these are only a few of the ones bj found.
I be happy if this ment they were making traditional Bond again and it pissed the Bourne Bond fans off but thing is I've seen the script they made the movie from it is not the traditional element that fail it its doing them wrong and the story that is the let down. Seriously the ending is completely unbond. If you watch it and think its ok I'd be surprised. Unless they changed it with the emergency edits finished last week. Never a good sign...

[The Sweeney]

I be happy if this ment they were making traditional Bond again and it pissed the Bourne Bond fans off but thing is I've seen the script they made the movie from it is not the traditional element that fail it its doing them wrong and the story that is the let down. Seriously the ending is completely unbond. If you watch it and think its ok I'd be surprised. Unless they changed it with the emergency edits finished last week. Never a good sign...

If its the leaked script you read, from what I heard the finished film is rather different. I couldn't comment, as I never read the script, and haven't seen the movie yet. We don't get it here in Gib until 6th Nov.

[bjmdds]

Speaking at the Spectre press conference, Craig revealed that rumours he was quitting the franchise are mere speculation and he is undecided about what he will do next. "I have the right to change my mind any time I want," he said. "And sometimes I say things, like I did when I was asked two days after I just finished shooting for eight months, 'Would I do another one?' That's what was on my mind, and I said what was on my mind. It's the way I've always spoken. But as I said, I reserve the right to change my mind," he explained.

[Napoleon Solo]

Speaking at the Spectre press conference, Craig revealed that rumours he was quitting the franchise are mere speculation and he is undecided about what he will do next. "I have the right to change my mind any time I want," he said. "And sometimes I say things, like I did when I was asked two days after I just finished shooting for eight months, 'Would I do another one?' That's what was on my mind, and I said what was on my mind. It's the way I've always spoken. But as I said, I reserve the right to change my mind," he explained.

Sort of like how he said he and Marc Forster "really" wrote Quantum of Solace despite how, according to numerous stories written during production, there was a writer (Joshua Zetumer) present doing rewrites.

Yes, I know the interviews were done a few days after SPECTRE finished filming. But he said what he said. And now he's changing his mind. Fine.

[Omega]

Speaking at the Spectre press conference, Craig revealed that rumours he was quitting the franchise are mere speculation and he is undecided about what he will do next. "I have the right to change my mind any time I want," he said. "And sometimes I say things, like I did when I was asked two days after I just finished shooting for eight months, 'Would I do another one?' That's what was on my mind, and I said what was on my mind. It's the way I've always spoken. But as I said, I reserve the right to change my mind," he explained.

Sort of like how he said he and Marc Forster "really" wrote Quantum of Solace despite how, according to numerous stories written during production, there was a writer (Joshua Zetumer) present doing rewrites.

Yes, I know the interviews were done a few days after SPECTRE finished filming. But he said what he said. And now he's changing his mind. Fine.

I never expected any thing else from him but eon and the stupid should


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[Alessandra]

I be happy if this ment they were making traditional Bond again and it pissed the Bourne Bond fans off but thing is I've seen the script they made the movie from it is not the traditional element that fail it its doing them wrong and the story that is the let down. Seriously the ending is completely unbond. If you watch it and think its ok I'd be surprised. Unless they changed it with the emergency edits finished last week. Never a good sign...

If its the leaked script you read, from what I heard the finished film is rather different. I couldn't comment, as I never read the script, and haven't seen the movie yet. We don't get it here in Gib until 6th Nov.

Sweeney, hi! I saw bits and everyone did, of the script, when it was leaked (i'm not talking about the entire script, I'm talking about the bits leaked with the Sony hack) and we have verified already from the bits that were leaked, that the scenes are EXACTLY the same as those that were leaked. Every single spoiler so far is the exact same. Scenes that were shown, spoilers from critics who saw the movie, are the EXACT same as the leaked bits. Just know, the novelization will surprise you... for how on point it is. LOL. The stuff that was leaked was VERY updated because they were already filming. People tried the pathetic "oh it's an old version" excuse. You know how Sony operates.

For now I will leave it at this. The movie is TERRIBLE. And I really do mean terrible. It's completely uninteresting in terms of plot and it is PATHETIC in terms of a ridiculous, unjustified, out of nothing love story with a woman who is a cardboard cut, flat, insipid character Bond has no reason whatsoever to fall in love with, other than "we have decided he must fall in love with her! let's do it!".

For everyone: http://variety.com/2015/film/box-office ... 201626243/

I'm posting this link because it shows you how VARIETY tells you I am right about how much a film needs to make in order to break even. And it's not because I found out, but because I read from those who do the box office math and the company profits math So now you can calculate how much at a bare minimum Spectre needs to make to break even. $300 mln just for production. Around $200 mln for advertising (yes crazy but those are the costs for this type of franchise now.). Do the math. It's $1 bln just to break even.

[Atticus]

For everyone: http://variety.com/2015/film/box-office ... 201626243/

I'm posting this link because it shows you how VARIETY tells you I am right about how much a film needs to make in order to break even. And it's not because I found out, but because I read from those who do the box office math and the company profits math So now you can calculate how much at a bare minimum Spectre needs to make to break even. $300 mln just for production. Around $200 mln for advertising (yes crazy but those are the costs for this type of franchise now.). Do the math. It's $1 bln just to break even.

On this note, here's an analysis of this weekend's poor box office numbers:

http://deadline.com/2015/10/the-last-wi ... 201592008/

How did this pile-up of four wide entries and an expansion happen? Basically, everyone is trying to avoid Halloween (which falls on a Saturday) next weekend and Spectre, which is going to steal business away during the first weekend in November. Also figuring in was distribs scrambling with their titles in response to The Martian opening earlier in October and Steve Jobs changing up its pattern.

I heard similar comments on talk radio and on some entertainment news shows expressing the same thing about Spectre's opening weekend. This seems to be the overall mood; that Spectre will have a great opening weekend but that's it. It's downhill from there, landing six feet under and pushing petunias, as other big tent pole films open in the following weeks. We'll see.

[Omega]

I noticed there are some new numbers being published , rental , which as I understand it means the amount the studio takes home , be interesting if they publish that for sp


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[bjmdds]

If it opens under $80 million in the USA MGM and Sony will be worried. Others have speculated $90-100 million as the high range here. The UK response awaits tomorrow as the street DVD sales will start in the USA this week.

[kater23]

Saw a HUGE Spectre poster when I went to the movies the other day.They are REALLY promoting it.

[Alessandra]

For everyone: http://variety.com/2015/film/box-office ... 201626243/

I'm posting this link because it shows you how VARIETY tells you I am right about how much a film needs to make in order to break even. And it's not because I found out, but because I read from those who do the box office math and the company profits math So now you can calculate how much at a bare minimum Spectre needs to make to break even. $300 mln just for production. Around $200 mln for advertising (yes crazy but those are the costs for this type of franchise now.). Do the math. It's $1 bln just to break even.

On this note, here's an analysis of this weekend's poor box office numbers:

http://deadline.com/2015/10/the-last-wi ... 201592008/

How did this pile-up of four wide entries and an expansion happen? Basically, everyone is trying to avoid Halloween (which falls on a Saturday) next weekend and Spectre, which is going to steal business away during the first weekend in November. Also figuring in was distribs scrambling with their titles in response to The Martian opening earlier in October and Steve Jobs changing up its pattern.

I heard similar comments on talk radio and on some entertainment news shows expressing the same thing about Spectre's opening weekend. This seems to be the overall mood; that Spectre will have a great opening weekend but that's it. It's downhill from there, landing six feet under and pushing petunias, as other big tent pole films open in the following weeks. We'll see.

I personally feel the same way just based on how the film is, but that doesn't mean I'm right. I do tend to think it will do well the first weekend and that'll be it. Mainly because of word of mouth. It's really a terrible movie. "Pushing petunias" made me laugh. But it's a good way of putting it. I guess we'll see.

If it opens under $80 million in the USA MGM and Sony will be worried. Others have speculated $90-100 million as the high range here. The UK response awaits tomorrow as the street DVD sales will start in the USA this week.

I don't know what to think about the opening. Everything is underperforming or bombing right now, so I don't know how to take it. It may be people just spend money on other stuff and are tired of seeing the same movies... and Bond would fall right into that category. Or instead it may be they released a row of bad movies. I don't know, what I know is that if it doesn't make 100 million on opening weekend (or around that much) no one will consider it a hit.

[shaken not stirred]

Imdb (no surprise here...) gave spectre an 8.4 (oddly higher than their rating for skyfall which was 7.8 (seems the minions really are out in full force...)), however metacritic it's now 69/100.

Sad to say (again...(sighs) this will do very good box office wise (seriously beep My country today)... (Look how horrible this review of spectre from imdb is (ie best bond evar)... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2379713/rev ... _=tt_ov_rt

Interestingly though whilst there's 7 positive on metacritic, there's also 4 mixed (going from 60, 42 to 40).

[English Agent]

There has been a lot in the UK media about Spectre in the last week, and today is the first day of previews.............i hopefully want to go and see the film tomorrow, i'am between contracts, so i can pick a more suitable time to see the film.
Anyway.........i find it confusing that one or two members here say the film is terrible, based on allegedly seeing snippets of the script................i don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion, without actually seeing the film, and the fact that no reviewer yet has said the film is terrible.........in fact its been mostly the opposite.
I do hope the film is good............and doesn't bomb.................coz if it were to, with its huge costs............then it would mean no more Bond, probably ever.......then no one here would be happy, would they?................be careful what you wish for!

[Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry]

There has been a lot in the UK media about Spectre in the last week, and today is the first day of previews.............i hopefully want to go and see the film tomorrow, i'am between contracts, so i can pick a more suitable time to see the film.
Anyway.........i find it confusing that one or two members here say the film is terrible, based on allegedly seeing snippets of the script................i don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion, without actually seeing the film, and the fact that no reviewer yet has said the film is terrible.........in fact its been mostly the opposite.
I do hope the film is good............and doesn't bomb.................coz if it were to, with its huge costs............then it would mean no more Bond, probably ever.......then no one here would be happy, would they?................be careful what you wish for!

The ending is corny - Bond finds out Dr Alan No is his son.

[English Agent]

There has been a lot in the UK media about Spectre in the last week, and today is the first day of previews.............i hopefully want to go and see the film tomorrow, i'am between contracts, so i can pick a more suitable time to see the film.
Anyway.........i find it confusing that one or two members here say the film is terrible, based on allegedly seeing snippets of the script................i don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion, without actually seeing the film, and the fact that no reviewer yet has said the film is terrible.........in fact its been mostly the opposite.
I do hope the film is good............and doesn't bomb.................coz if it were to, with its huge costs............then it would mean no more Bond, probably ever.......then no one here would be happy, would they?................be careful what you wish for!

The ending is corny - Bond finds out Dr Alan No is his son.

Don't tell us the ending 'Captain'.............i have heard its a bit weak!

[shaken not stirred]

Now it's 8.5 on imdb (god what awful taste the world has today)..

EA: I don't want bond to bomb but at the same time I don't want him to continue as this psychologically damaged nutcase who cares for no one and doesn't even care for the role in the first place, we've had 10 years of this and I just want it to go back to a more balanced bond who didn't need all this pyschobabble to make him great, I don't want to relate to bond and the craig films keep hammering that back and forth that we're supposed to.

[Omega]

Now it's 8.5 on imdb (god what awful taste the world has today)..

EA: I don't want bond to bomb but at the same time I don't want him to continue as this psychologically damaged nutcase who cares for no one and doesn't even care for the role in the first place, we've had 10 years of this and I just want it to go back to a more balanced bond who didn't need all this pyschobabble to make him great, I don't want to relate to bond and the craig films keep hammering that back and forth that we're supposed to.

IMDb is flooded with useful idiots who always come out to praise the new movies the score always goes down after sometime


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[Omega]

There has been a lot in the UK media about Spectre in the last week, and today is the first day of previews.............i hopefully want to go and see the film tomorrow, i'am between contracts, so i can pick a more suitable time to see the film.
Anyway.........i find it confusing that one or two members here say the film is terrible, based on allegedly seeing snippets of the script................i don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion, without actually seeing the film, and the fact that no reviewer yet has said the film is terrible.........in fact its been mostly the opposite.
I do hope the film is good............and doesn't bomb.................coz if it were to, with its huge costs............then it would mean no more Bond, probably ever.......then no one here would be happy, would they?................be careful what you wish for!

there have been reviews saying just it is terrible . I'm getting tired of being called a lier I posted some of the reviews that back this up just yesterday . The people who have had a peek at the script have had with few exceptions everything play out as they said . Even some reviews are posting entire synopsises of the film I don't see it is different from what was said here.

I don't take it personally EA I don't think you not earnest about wanting to see a good movie but remember you are being sold the movie right now they need you to go and are spending hundreds of millions to convince around 70 to 100 million people around the world to go.

Critics have been asked not to reveal "secrets" before a certain date and as with every bond movie since the 1990s the positive reviews are front loaded too . Probably part of the pr.

But as many hear have said we'd like it to do well enough it doesn't sink the MGM but bad enough they know Craig and the emo bond need to go away


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