Is the honeymoon over?

[Skywalker]

More and more Bond fans are now coming out and showing their displeasure with CR and Daniel Craig. There used to be a hardcore few, but perhaps the tide is turning and more fans are feeling confident in voicing their criticism's out in the open.

What do you think?

[Captain Nash]

Are you having a laugh?
Why should anyone need the confidence to admit whether they like or dislike Daniel Craig as James Bond.
And on what do you base this on? The ammount of members here? People you've spoken too?
I don't think Daniel Craig is anymore or less popular than any of the other James Bonds after a debut movie. But he has been accepted as James Bond on the whole.
You can post reviews and different opinions, but he has been given the thumbs up from general moviegoers and Bond fans alike. (Apart from a few.)

[Skywalker]

Are you having a laugh?
Why should anyone need the confidence to admit whether they like or dislike Daniel Craig as James Bond.
And on what do you base this on? The ammount of members here? People you've spoken too?
I don't think Daniel Craig is anymore or less popular than any of the other James Bonds after a debut movie. But he has been accepted as James Bond on the whole.
You can post reviews and different opinions, but he has been given the thumbs up from general moviegoers and Bond fans alike. (Apart from a few.)

It's surprising how many people write into forum's like this stating their displeasure with CR and Craig. Memberships have increased on here and other Bond sites where opinion is not Pro-Craig.

To have the courage to speak out about CR and Craig in a non positive way on a Pro-Craig site is difficult, but people are starting to do it.

[Commander 0077]

(btw, I haven't been able to login to this Forum from the homepage for a week now; so I took the back door thru my email)

On the topic, it wouldn't bother me if I was in the minority camp concerning DC as JB. If that means I would prefer a Bond who has more of the traditional traits of Bond, So be etc. ie, when Bond walks into the room (or shot) there has to be an large majority of the audience saying to themselves, Yes, this is Bond. But with Craig, there's always that large percentage of fans who say, No, this isn't Bond.

Is the honeymoon over? I haven't read latest news of Craig, but I would venture to say that it's possible that die hard Craigers are reflecting, hm, he's not the suavest guy in the room, is he? The actor playing 007 (I think) should be a personable guy with the media. Who knows, maybe pro-Craigers don't care for that. The guy playing Bond can be a total slob, and maybe they wouldn't even blink. But for those who do care, they may be edging just a bit over to the No, it's not Bond side.

[stockslivevan]

I think it is natural that memberships would increase here after a long time after its establishment. So far there are over 200 members here with at least a 1/4th speaking, that doesn't sound like the tide is turning.

[007]

I think it is natural that memberships would increase here after a long time after its establishment. So far there are over 200 members here with at least a 1/4th speaking, that doesn't sound like the tide is turning.

Considering how many Bond fans there are around the world I don't think any forum or website should kid itself that it speaks for everyone. That goes for the thirty or so chronic bores who post on CommanderBond.net every week too.

[stockslivevan]

I think it is natural that memberships would increase here after a long time after its establishment. So far there are over 200 members here with at least a 1/4th speaking, that doesn't sound like the tide is turning.

Considering how many Bond fans there are around the world I don't think any forum or website should kid itself that it speaks for everyone. That goes for the thirty or so chronic bores who post on CommanderBond.net every week too.

Agreed, which is why research is done on non-Bond sites, grossings, rankings among critics and users. Collect them all together, balance them out, and you have the collective conciousness showing that CR is generally well received. Certainly, anyone can remember how the tide switched dramatically between the release of CR.

[English Agent]

I think it is natural that memberships would increase here after a long time after its establishment. So far there are over 200 members here with at least a 1/4th speaking, that doesn't sound like the tide is turning.

Considering how many Bond fans there are around the world I don't think any forum or website should kid itself that it speaks for everyone. That goes for the thirty or so chronic bores who post on CommanderBond.net every week too.

...........and the half dozen or so bores here!!!

[Skywalker]

I think it is natural that memberships would increase here after a long time after its establishment. So far there are over 200 members here with at least a 1/4th speaking, that doesn't sound like the tide is turning.

Considering how many Bond fans there are around the world I don't think any forum or website should kid itself that it speaks for everyone. That goes for the thirty or so chronic bores who post on CommanderBond.net every week too.

...........and the half dozen or so bores here!!!

There's only one and you get to seem him every morning when you look in the mirror.

[English Agent]

I think it is natural that memberships would increase here after a long time after its establishment. So far there are over 200 members here with at least a 1/4th speaking, that doesn't sound like the tide is turning.

Considering how many Bond fans there are around the world I don't think any forum or website should kid itself that it speaks for everyone. That goes for the thirty or so chronic bores who post on CommanderBond.net every week too.

...........and the half dozen or so bores here!!!

There's only one and you get to seem him every morning when you look in the mirror.

Nice one 'Skywalker'............but being a vampire i've no reflection, therefore i dont have mirrors.



EA

[Eye Of The Tiger]

I did not go see Casino Royale when it was out in theaters despite the fact that I had seen every Bond film on opening day since Octopussy.
I had no intentions what-so-ever of EON getting a penny of my money for the farce that they were trying to pass off as a Bond film.

I also had no intentions of buying or renting the DVD, and I have not done so.

A few weeks after the DVD came out a friend of mine gave me his copy because he said he didn't have any interest in seeing it again, this despite the fact that he too owns the first 20 films on DVD as well as Never Say Never Again.

As opposed as I was/am to what EON have done to the once great franchise, I still was hoping that I might be able to enjoy certain aspects of the film.

Since I was still very bitter about the changes that had been made with the franchise, but was also still hoping to be able to enjoy the film, I decided to not watch it at the time untill I had released some of the anger that I had inside of me about the stupid moves made by EON.

It wasn't until the night of August 17th 2007 that I finally decided to watch Casino Royale.

However, I was only able to watch roughly the first half of the film before I became so bored that I couldn't continue to sit there watching it. So I turned it off. It wasn't until the night of August 24th 2007 that I decided to finish watching the film. My DVD player has memory that allows it to pick up right where you had last left off.

Now, it should be pointed out that not only was I always very, very happily at opening day of all of the Bond films from Octopussy through Die Another Day, but that the first time that I had ever watched the Bond films from Dr. No through For Your Eyes Only on tv or video tape that I would NEVER have imagined not watching the entire film start to finish!

First off, at no time what-so-ever did I feel like I was watching a James Bond film while I was watching Casino Royale! Seriously, it did not feel like a Bond film even once to me until the end titles, and that was ONLY because of the Bond theme playing at that time.

Daniel Craig was a huge part of the problem, however, the script it's-self also greatly added to the disapointment that I was feeling with the film.

Daniel craig was simply impossible to accept as being a realistic James Bond. Not only did Craig in no-way look the part of James Bond, but gone were all of the characteristics that I had known and loved about Bond over the many years. The line where Craig's-Bond says "That last hand nearly killed me" could have and should have been funny, and if it had been Connery, Moore or Brosnan delivering the line it would have been funny, but Craig's delivery was much like the film, very boring.

Again, not all of the blame lies on Craig's shoulders, much of the blame falls on the script and EON's moronic choices to screw with the timelines of past Bond history. But at the same time Craig just wasn't Bondian in any way at all. He didn't look or act the part.

I found the torture scene to be a disgusting and repulsive scene that just amplified what horrible decisions EON had made with the franchise. The torture scene did not recall past Bond films, it recalls sick and twisted films like the "Saw" franchise where the whole premise of the film is built around brutality and evil.

Judy dench was also quite boring in the film, and the lack of Q or Miss Moneypenny were glaring problems as well.

I also found it impossible to believe that Craig's-Bond and Vesper had fallen in love, or that Bond would feel that Vesper was any more lovable than past Bond girls. Yes, I know, Casino Royale is supposed to be taking place before any of the other Bond films, but there were far, far more lovable Bond girls in many of the past Bond films, in fact most of the Bond films. The relationship between Craig's-Bond and Vesper only seemed sexual and nothing else.

The card game just dragged on too long. The action scenes felt like they were there strictly for the sake of having action scenes, not for building on the plot of the film.

Simply put, Casino Royale was simply boring and not worthy of being called a "Bond" film!

It will probably be many years before I would consider watching Casino Royale a second time, despite my having watched all of the other Bond films anywhere from ten to fifty times each by now.

Lets hurry up and get this Daniel Craig "Bond" charade over as quickly as possible so that we might once again be able to look forward to seeing a new Bond film. That is if there are any fans left by the time Craig has made all three of his films?

[Commander 0077]

I agree, Eye. (is it golden, btw? )

I, too, did not see CR in the theatres. Only watched it once a few months ago -- and I didn't pay for the rental. I watched it with friends, and for the first time, I didn't mind blah blah blahing during a Bond film. CR was just a background piece, like a fish tank. Vapid faces bubbling about Usually, during a Bond film the double Os will laff or make a brief comment, but of course it's rude to just blahblahblah. But in the case of CR, no one minded, because it was just an action film. OK in some parts, but foregettable even as an action film As a Bond film, it failed (for me) for the reasons you mentioned. While I respect others' opinions for liking CR and Craig as Bond, for me, Bond should fit a certain mold --- handsome, suave, self-deprecating, mock snobbism* ... but Craig just was a different kind of mold ... now I'm not making a comment on his general acting ability, but his non-ability as Bond. After all, we can't blame him for taking the job. The fault is Eon's.

* Both the novels and the film Bonds didn't take their snobbery seriously. Take a look at the book Goldfinger where Bond is treated to a lavish dinner. Afterwards, he's ashamed of himself. The 'high life' is really not for him. He mocks himself in the later books as just being a peasant, and plans to 'retire to a chicken farm.' Not exactly the comments of someone who takes himself too seriously, nor the 'gentleman' standard as something to aspire too 'seriously.'

Another thing with Craig is that he's just too serious in the role.

[Eye Of The Tiger]

I agree, Eye. (is it golden, btw? )

I, too, did not see CR in the theatres. Only watched it once a few months ago -- and I didn't pay for the rental. I watched it with friends, and for the first time, I didn't mind blah blah blahing during a Bond film. CR was just a background piece, like a fish tank. Vapid faces bubbling about Usually, during a Bond film the double Os will laff or make a brief comment, but of course it's rude to just blahblahblah. But in the case of CR, no one minded, because it was just an action film. OK in some parts, but foregettable even as an action film As a Bond film, it failed (for me) for the reasons you mentioned. While I respect others' opinions for liking CR and Craig as Bond, for me, Bond should fit a certain mold --- handsome, suave, self-deprecating, mock snobbism* ... but Craig just was a different kind of mold ... now I'm not making a comment on his general acting ability, but his non-ability as Bond. After all, we can't blame him for taking the job. The fault is Eon's.

* Both the novels and the film Bonds didn't take their snobbery seriously. Take a look at the book Goldfinger where Bond is treated to a lavish dinner. Afterwards, he's ashamed of himself. The 'high life' is really not for him. He mocks himself in the later books as just being a peasant, and plans to 'retire to a chicken farm.' Not exactly the comments of someone who takes himself too seriously, nor the 'gentleman' standard as something to aspire too 'seriously.'

Another thing with Craig is that he's just too serious in the role.

Yes, while watching Casino Royale I did something that had always been unthinkable to me in the past, and that is that I started doing some things in the background while I watched. I closely watched most of it, but at times I would run to the kitchen to grab a beer or some chips or things along those lines. Usually there is no-way that I would have done anything other than be glued to the TV during a Bond film, and those were films that I had already seen whereas with CR it was the first time I was seeing it.

I'm not saying there was never a decent scene here or there in CR, but there weren't many, and none of them were great IMO.

Like I mentioned, I was not happy going into this film, but I honestly tried my best to like it once I sat down to watch it, and yet I was all the more angry and depressed after I was done watching it.

[adam]

I agree, Eye. (is it golden, btw? )

I, too, did not see CR in the theatres. Only watched it once a few months ago -- and I didn't pay for the rental. I watched it with friends, and for the first time, I didn't mind blah blah blahing during a Bond film. CR was just a background piece, like a fish tank. Vapid faces bubbling about Usually, during a Bond film the double Os will laff or make a brief comment, but of course it's rude to just blahblahblah. But in the case of CR, no one minded, because it was just an action film. OK in some parts, but foregettable even as an action film As a Bond film, it failed (for me) for the reasons you mentioned. While I respect others' opinions for liking CR and Craig as Bond, for me, Bond should fit a certain mold --- handsome, suave, self-deprecating, mock snobbism* ... but Craig just was a different kind of mold ... now I'm not making a comment on his general acting ability, but his non-ability as Bond. After all, we can't blame him for taking the job. The fault is Eon's.

* Both the novels and the film Bonds didn't take their snobbery seriously. Take a look at the book Goldfinger where Bond is treated to a lavish dinner. Afterwards, he's ashamed of himself. The 'high life' is really not for him. He mocks himself in the later books as just being a peasant, and plans to 'retire to a chicken farm.' Not exactly the comments of someone who takes himself too seriously, nor the 'gentleman' standard as something to aspire too 'seriously.'

Another thing with Craig is that he's just too serious in the role.

Yes, while watching Casino Royale I did something that had always been unthinkable to me in the past, and that is that I started doing some things in the background while I watched. I closely watched most of it, but at times I would run to the kitchen to grab a beer or some chips or things along those lines. Usually there is no-way that I would have done anything other than be glued to the TV during a Bond film, and those were films that I had already seen whereas with CR it was the first time I was seeing it.

I'm not saying there was never a decent scene here or there in CR, but there weren't many, and none of them were great IMO.

Like I mentioned, I was not happy going into this film, but I honestly tried my best to like it once I sat down to watch it, and yet I was all the more angry and depressed after I was done watching it.

Check out 'Tales From the Dark Side' on the Alternative Bond site. Or the articles on 'Sinking Ship'. As well as CNB. All the comments are well thought out and make valid points. There is obviously a lot of people that don't like the direction things have gone. Unfortunatly there are also loyal Bond fans who will support Bond no matter what. If Bond 22 is not a complete disaster, the English press will go ott & lavish praise on it & it will do good box office. If it is a poor film, like Moore's second (TMWTGG), it could spell the end for Craig.

[bjmdds]

The Eye Of The Tiger states the sentiment and actions of a LOT of 'traditionalist' Bond fans. I too could care less in the future when CR will be on television, for I found it intolerable to watch, and I have watched all of the previous 20 films an excessive amount of times over the years. Craig's run as Bond cannot end soon enough for me, and there are a substantial amount of us out there,worldwide,who feel the same way.

[The Sweeney]

Both the novels and the film Bonds didn't take their snobbery seriously.

I didn't think Craig was taking snobbery seriously in CR either. This is one of the points criticizing Craig's performance. That he isn't posh and suave enough, so I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Take a look at the book Goldfinger where Bond is treated to a lavish dinner. Afterwards, he's ashamed of himself. The 'high life' is really not for him. He mocks himself in the later books as just being a peasant, and plans to 'retire to a chicken farm.' Not exactly the comments of someone who takes himself too seriously, nor the 'gentleman' standard as something to aspire too 'seriously.'

Another thing with Craig is that he's just too serious in the role.

Bond was very serious through the entire novels. The comments you made above hardly reflect the more serious tone in the novels. Bond rarely cracks a smile in the books, never mind a one-liner quip. Usually, the most Bond ever does in the way of smiling, is smiling at some women he is about to try and pull, or smiling grimly to himslef at some sadistic thought.

[The Sweeney]

I found the torture scene to be a disgusting and repulsive scene that just amplified what horrible decisions EON had made with the franchise. The torture scene did not recall past Bond films, it recalls sick and twisted films like the "Saw" franchise where the whole premise of the film is built around brutality and evil.

You obviously haven't read the 1952 novel in which the film was based then.....

[Gary Seven]

You obviously haven't read the 1952 novel in which the film was based then.....

Casino Royale was not a very close adaption of the novel. I think there is supposed to be a difference between a popular film series and a series of thrillers written in the late 50's.

You could go back to the Fleming thrillers and make a close adaption, but CR wasn't it.

[The Sweeney]

You obviously haven't read the 1952 novel in which the film was based then.....

Casino Royale was not a very close adaption of the novel. I think there is supposed to be a difference between a popular film series and a series of thrillers written in the late 50's.

You could go back to the Fleming thrillers and make a close adaption, but CR wasn't it.

So, from the second half of CR, what exactly wasn't accurate to the book?

To me, it was as close an adaptation as you could get for 2006, the closest adaptation of an entire Bond novel since 1969.

[Oddjob]

So, from the second half of CR, what exactly wasn't accurate to the book?

The ending.