The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan
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Alessandra
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Alessandra »

English Agent wrote:One point regarding your last post 'Ale'.........the villian for Bond 23 has been cast.....Javier Bardem accepted the role, it was announced in the film trade a few weeks ago.
EA, I don't know where it was reported, but there's nothing official about that. Deadline Hollywood and Variety, the go-to places, had absolutely nothing on it, and Deadline Hollywood was the first place announcing he had been contacted for a possible Bond role. Still as of the latest Dark Tower (film in which Bardem is instead officially announced to star) news, deadline has nothing on Bardem being officially hired for Bond. So that too remains just rumor. (doesn't mean it won't be made official at some point, but as of now, still a rumor).
That's the way it is in movie business. They're contracted to promote the flicks in a positive manner, it's unrealistic to expect them to say anything less than good. Pierce Brosnan did exactly the same thing with his flicks and years later he admitted he wasn't fond of them at all. Don't forget Roger Moore who later admitted his feelings about AVTAK. Studios wouldn't exactly be happy to see the stars of their tentpole films promoting them by saying something along the lines "I thought it was okay". You think Cavill would come out and say his Superman film is not as good as the original Christopher Reeve film? No way. That's not what these studios are paying them to do.
I'm very well aware how it works, in fact I said I DO understand the needs of publicity, I certainly don't expect him to trash the movie while it's being released, but while there are needs for publicity, there's way and way of handling it. Craig handled it the wrong way. Actually, Cavill would NEVER say his Superman film will be as good as Reeve's films, and he has avoided saying it. Because he's smart and because publicity or not, he doesn't want to look like an ass. He's been repeatedly asked about Reeve and he's been (and rightly so) completely avoiding comparisons AND forecasts. He said he's thrilled about being on board and about the role/script and when asked (by a friend of mine at Comic Con during the table interviews with the press) what he was going to bring to the role, he said (I'm quoting exactly here) "I think it would be presumptuous of me to say what I'm going to bring to the role. I think the fans will be the ones who have to see and judge what I bring to the role." That's called being humble and sensible. Publicity is not about lies, it's about spinning things the appropriate way. Craig could and should have been a lot more vague (like I said in the previous post, just be vague so people don't feel like their intelligence is being insulted) about QoS. He of course could not say "the movie stinks" which was the truth. But he could and should have avoided making triumphant comments. Keep it low-key "I gave my best and we all work really hard on the movie, let's see what the fans will have to say about it." Positive comment also complementing the hard work of others and you don't flat out lie by saying the movie is great and the director is brilliant to then say that it was a crammed together thing that wasn't up to par. There are many ways of commenting while staying positive without lying.
IIRC all the Bond films since GE typically start filming in December or January (in fact main unit didn't even start filming until April for TND!) . Having 23 start on October is much earlier than usual for a Fall release Bond film. Plus comparing a Bond film's production with a movie like Superman is way off. Superman is supposed to film a lot earlier than a Bond film would because of the extensive use of special effects that have to be worked on.
About Bond: yeah. You omitted what I said right after the lines you quoted. I said that they DO have a habit of filming later for Bond films, and cited the fact they were filming for QoS in my backyard in April. I also added that EON seems to have a habit of filming so late, except then we get stuff like QoS. So yeah, I'm aware in general they film later for Bond. It just doesn't always work well, and it sure didn't for QoS (and they were ridiculously late filming for that. Action movies typically film a year before release). In this case they should be filming way earlier because of the importance this particular one has and because of how poorly put together QoS was.

About Superman. Superman does have special effects but that doesn't justify filming SO much earlier. They'd have been in perfectly good shape for a December 2012 release (and they started filming two weeks ahead of schedule, they were supposed to start mid-August and they started on July 26 instead) but given now the release is June 2013 they're definitely way ahead of schedule. That's because good productions plan way ahead, especially when they need to launch a movie that's a reboot of a franchise. Bond 23 is a fundamental movie for our franchise at this point because if it tanks, we SERIOUSLY risk the entire franchise. That's because these monkeys have waited so long, only to re-call the same actor who was already looking barely age-appropriate for the part when he last filmed. They should have all casting completed at this point not to mention a finished and revised script. Instead we have "the bones" of a script, everyone still to be officially cast for the main roles and filming to start in October (and I want to see whether that'll actually happen by the way. We're in August and there's still just Bond and M. Unless they plan to have an affair with Bond and M in Bond 23, which after all wouldn't even surprise me given the crazy decisions these people have been making :lol:).

About Cowboys & Aliens: this is what deadline says... and if they are saying C&A is really close to tanking, it means the situation is really bad. They also reference the fact that them and Smurfs being so close on Saturday is good for Smurfs, seen as they're expected to perform better tonight (Sunday night) than C&A.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/07/first-b ... -love-18m/
Last edited by Alessandra on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by FormerBondFan »

HP 7.2 has made over $1 billion worldwide, surpassing TDK's worldwide numbers. That should tell how weak Bond really is today. Like Blowfeld said, Bond is nothing more than the shell of what he used to be.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by carl stromberg »

We all know what type if Bond film Bond 23 will be, and we know what type of Bond Craig will be playing - the po-faced musclebound thug Bond. We also know that Bond 23 will be awful. Why then are they bothering to make it?
Bring back Bond!
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by bjmdds »

From sweet Ale's link:"What is crystal clear is that Smurfs is overperforming way beyond expectations while Cowboys & Aliens is way behind expectations to the point of tanking. What's more humiliating than Hollywood execs overestimating the opening for Cowboys and having it fall short? Having their well-pedigreed motion picture with big Hollywood writers (Roberto Orci & Alex Kurtzman), stars (Daniel Craig & Harrison Ford), director (Jon Favreau), and producers (Steven Spielberg & Ron Howard & Brian Grazer) beaten at the box office by Smurfs. Especially with Smurfs playing in 355 fewer North American theaters than Cowboys but charging higher 3D ticket prices. Smurfs even beat Cowboys on CinemaScores: 'A' vs 'B'." I am loving this!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by bjmdds »

carl stromberg wrote:We all know what type if Bond film Bond 23 will be, and we know what type of Bond Craig will be playing - the po-faced musclebound thug Bond. We also know that Bond 23 will be awful. Why then are they bothering to make it?
Correctamundo Carl. THAT's the million dollar question....why?........for this dreg? http://www.ronchan.net/wordpress/wp-con ... g_bond.jpg
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by katied »

carl stromberg wrote:We all know what type if Bond film Bond 23 will be, and we know what type of Bond Craig will be playing - the po-faced musclebound thug Bond. We also know that Bond 23 will be awful. Why then are they bothering to make it?
This. So much.Cubby is turning over in his grave. :cuss:
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Thunderpussy »

It takes a really special kind of STUPID to wreck a goldmine like the Bond series, but fair play to Eon they've managed it. :twisted:
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Alessandra »

bjmdds wrote:At no other time in Bond history has there been a 9 year time line with only 2 films being done. Even Dalton did two in 2 years. Brosnan did 4 in 7 years. Are only two films in 9 years due to EIN's lack of artistic drive OR is it their finances are in HUGE trouble raising money with the current actor? Something is not adding up. It's time for new ownership of the franchise. The Broccoli name no longer has merit.
That is for sure... (about the Broccolis). The 2 films in 9 years is a combination of factors, including for sure the total lack of artistic drive, AND huge trouble raising money (not to mention MGM collapsing). I just hope we aren't put in the position to learn the lesson once and for all with Bond 23 by losing the franchise over it. Frankly, I don't like anything of what they've said so far about the direction the movie is taking. It sounds exactly like QoS and that was for me by far the worst Bond movie ever. No wait, non-Bond movie since I didn't see James Bond in it (or in Casino Royale for that matter). I hope Bond 23 will be better once it's done, but given how I felt about the past 2 way before they were released based on the news, I'm really not that confident. I felt they were going to suck and they did. That said, this may be the time they prove me wrong. I just don't want Bond 23 to tank.. make it perform so and so to finally teach Babs a lesson, but not tank because if it does we seriously risk losing the franchise. And I seriously, seriously don't want it to end with that Craig face in my mind. I want Cavill or someone with the same characteristics (only one I can think of that I could tolerate other than Cavill is the dude who plays archer in Robin Hood series) to take it over. But I do feel the only perfect one is Cavill. Of course I would have been more than ok with Jackman too but at this rate he's going to be too freaking old by the time Bond 24 is in production.

FBF Potter has triumphed :D You should be doing the happy dance! :mrgreen:
We all know what type if Bond film Bond 23 will be, and we know what type of Bond Craig will be playing - the po-faced musclebound thug Bond. We also know that Bond 23 will be awful. Why then are they bothering to make it?
Because MGM desperately needs a movie out and it needs an established franchise one. It has The Hobbit but that is not enough. They need cash flow yesterday and the expectations (I underline, expectations.. we saw how those worked for Cowboys & Aliens) for a Bond movie allow them to sell deals like the one that was mentioned on Deadline (distribution for Bond means you sign a deal that forces you to invest in other project of ours too, and that generates cash flow for us. Us being MGM).

I'm truly sorry just for Orci & Kurtzman who are BRILLIANT writers and I really DO want them plus Jeff Eastin for Bond. But I read in the piece that there were over a DOZEN writers involved in the script and it went on for over 14 months?! WHAT? That means they came in last minute (which they did) to clean the mess, and when things are so messed up in the first place, there's not much one can do. So clearly what went on with the movie is only partly their fault, if at all. I did say from the trailer that it looked terrible. I don't understand how they thought they could get away with it but hey... sometimes they just don't get it in this business. They praised and praised that GODAWFUL pilot for Lone Star, which was expected to be the superduperamazing show for this past season on TV, and when I saw it my comment was "how did anyone in their right mind think this was EVER going to work!?" :shock:

The problems actually were exactly the same they have with C&A. TOTALLY wrong lead, the dude was completely insignificant, especially compared to the rest of the cast (check Craig vs Harrison Ford). TOTALLY messed up story: the story of the CO-STARS was way more interesting than that of the lead. That show failed so miserably that Fox only aired two episodes. It totalled 2 mln viewers at 9 pm. Disastrous. Yet here we are again. With a production where they spent a MINIMUM $200 mln (excluding advertising, and yes I'm aware the piece says a max $200.. I'm also aware what is reported as official figures is always on the WAY lower end of the spending spectrum, so yeah, they spent a minimum $200 mln on it, not a minimum $163 mln and max $200 like the story says) that is set to fail and that, let's face it, already looked ridiculous by cashing in the same amount of money as the SMURFS.

BJ, I knew you would have liked the story! :mrgreen: And that's from the go-to source for Hollywood news, so...

LOL I hadn't seen the photos with how Bond 23 could turn out to be. HELL PLEASE NO! I don't want it to tank. Just teach them a lesson but do not tank, I want a franchise for Henry! :D
It takes a really special kind of STUPID to wreck a goldmine like the Bond series, but fair play to Eon they've managed it. :twisted:
God knows why nobody told them to fix things when there was still time to do so. It's unreal.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by FormerBondFan »

Even if Bond 23 crash and burn, Bond will survive.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by katied »

But the bond franchise won't be thought well of.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Thunderpussy »

I suppose I could do the old quote about forgetting the first rule in mass communication, Give the people what they want. Where as The producers feel we should see whats good for us,You see up until they did their Wonderful reboot we,The great unwashed where watching the Wrong kind of Bond films, Cubby and the rest of the crew had being doing it wrong all these years.
You see the Producers are " Intellectuals" so know Much, much more than us mere Mortals. Or Rather that's what they think they are. In reality they are like fools who believe the snake oil salesman, They've been told Bond is Old fashioned, out of touch, needs to be modernised, rebooted for the new century. So they sold their cow and Bought the Magic Beans.
Hopefully some presure will come to bear after the hash of QOS, if even their new boy wonder is slagging it off, they must accept it Stinks. But then again thats what any good businessman or woman would do. Not Eon of course like any Fanatic they Know their right,It's the rest of us who are wrong. So I expect them to push ahead with whatever travisty of a Movie they can "Cobble together " for next year.
Then we can wait for the wonderful Mr Craig to tell us all why it didn't work was because,...................................................
He didn't have the right Director, or Script. The editing wasn't right and so on, Missing the One Big Main Problem, .......................... HIMSELF ! :twisted:
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Thunderpussy »

I'm glad to see Potter doing well, The series deserves it. It gave the fans what they wanted and didn't try changing the characters :cheers:
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by katied »

It is definitely going to be cobbled together.To some ill effect,I might add. :cuss:
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Thunderpussy »

I even think a return to a more traditional Bond may well be impossible under the present producers. As after the disasterous ad for International womens day Craig did in Drag, we can't have any of the witty conversations between Bond and moneypenny as this would be sexist. The same goes for how Bond will have to treat Women as He's now a Modern Metrosexual Urban Male thanks to Babs.
The series will have to be either sold or taken over to revive it before Death really does set in.
I do have to laugh at those who say Craig is the closest we've had to Flemings Bond, When under Babs control he moved further and further away from what Fleming wrote.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Alessandra »

I of course agree Craig is the biggest problem (especially since HE is the one who pushes in a certain direction for the character, too), but the piss-poor script they had for QoS couldn't have been saved by Cavill or Jackman either. That was so d**n bad there was no saving it. Of course one could argue they would NOT have gone that route with QoS had Cavill or Jackman been Bond, but that's another story. That script was incredibly horrid, on top of Bond being a gym-inflated HE MAN (remember? Yeah the guy who battled Skeleton LOL) the Bond girls were totally insignificant. Camille had potential but they never used it. And let's not even talk about the "villain". I guess only Le Chiffre was more laughable. So there are a bunch of problems here... what I don't understand is how those who CAN do it didn't tell them "what the hell is wrong with you, fix this mess!" when there was still time to do so.

Anyone who says Craig is the closest we've had to Fleming's Bond needs a huge pair of very thick glasses (or rather, laser done to their eyes), their ears to be unplugged and then to watch Timothy Dalton as Bond, because if we're talking Fleming purists, HE was the closest (or well Sir Sean since Fleming was still there when he was picked), and hot d**n he looks and behaves NOTHING and I mean NOTHING like Craig's Bond. Brosnan's Bond was WAY more similar to Dalton's than Craig's will ever be. Then of course there's the fact Craig looks NOTHING like Fleming's Bond for starters, so really... whatever, I just finished re-reading Casino Royale and I get so incredibly pissed every time because they completely messed up a story and characters that were so great. EACH and EVERY one of them, with that CR version they produced. Starting from James Bond, who looks like a gym-inflated thug, and behaves as one. Instead of being the hyper refined, suave spy he is in the book. Whatever, really, that "argument" about Craig being close to Fleming was ridiculous to begin with. If anything, he couldn't be further from what Fleming wrote: out of all the Bonds we saw he for sure is the one that the least resembles to the character in the novels.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by bjmdds »

If Bond 23 burns with Mendes, and it will, and the franchise suffers more, DC will be forever remembered as the worst actor to portray Bond and responsible for ending the franchise that lasted over 50 years. That would be some reference to his already paltry resume and a testament to the lack of ability of the green vegetable. More bad news for a Cr-egg film. I took this from 2 week's ago's article on the comic-con in LA: "It's unclear if this is a sign that Paramount is a bit worried about how The Adventures of Tintin will perform in America, but they've recently announced that Steven Spielberg, of all people, will be taking a bit of time out of whatever the heck he's doing (like working on both War Horse and Tintin simultaneously, I guess) to attend this year's Comic-Con next week. In person, that is; the last time he showed up was via video to pimp Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull."
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by stockslivevan »

FormerBondFan wrote:HP 7.2 has made over $1 billion worldwide, surpassing TDK's worldwide numbers. That should tell how weak Bond really is today. Like Blowfeld said, Bond is nothing more than the shell of what he used to be.
Bond hasn't had something of that equivalent since the Connery era, that's why they called it Bondmania when the series brand spanking new and that was truly the only time the Bond series was leading its genre. Nothing since that era came close, neither Moore nor Brosnan. Aside from major drops like TMWTGG and LTK, the popularity of the Bond films have remained fairly consistent since the 70s. Wasn't CR the biggest Bond film since LALD on ticket sales? You knock the Craig films for not making Harry Potter/TDK popularity you're pretty much knocking on his three predecessors for failing to live up to such hype. I don't think Bond films will ever reach such a feat again whether it stars Craig or Jackman for a very very long time. That's just how it is. It perform on a respectable level but the only records it could ever break are its own, not the rest of Hollywood.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by stockslivevan »

Alessandra wrote:I said that they DO have a habit of filming later for Bond films, and cited the fact they were filming for QoS in my backyard in April. I also added that EON seems to have a habit of filming so late, except then we get stuff like QoS. So yeah, I'm aware in general they film later for Bond. It just doesn't always work well, and it sure didn't for QoS (and they were ridiculously late filming for that. Action movies typically film a year before release). In this case they should be filming way earlier because of the importance this particular one has and because of how poorly put together QoS was.
Of course but the problem isn't the filming dates and post production, at least I think. The real problem has been the scripts not being polished or receiving too many rewrites. TWINE being the worst example.

Then look outside of Bond. STAR TREK had its release date pushed back from a Dec 2008 release to May 2009. But that extra amount of post production simply couldn't hide the fact that the script was incompetent.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Thunderpussy »

In the old days when a Bond film didn't do as well as expected for the next outing, They'd up the budget and give us a spectacular like TSWLM. or Goldeneye.
But after loosing a fortune on QOS, I don't think they'll have the huge budget to do this again. So in a way they're in new territory, Yet another corner the Kids have painted themselves in to, the "Dunb and Dumber" of the producing world.
I wonder when the penny will drop with the green veggie that she's basically a Crap Producer and should of stayed counting paper clips for some second unit.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Kristatos »

Box Office Mojo's Weekend Report spends a good deal of time analyzing CvA's relative lack of success. Among the reasons given:
It also didn't help to have two sourpuss lead actors (Daniel Craig, Harrison Ford) instead of a contrast.
First time I've ever seen Craig explicitly blamed for one of his films failing on a mainstream site (as opposed to an open forum such as this one).
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