The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[stockslivevan]

Oh, okay. So what you're all saying is that internet forums debating Craig = Craig Failed, No Questions

*faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrt*

Nerd forums do not reflect the opinions of everyone else outside. I mean before CR came out Craig was condemned by most of the general public and heavily debated on internet forums. Right after CR comes out, a lot of folks took back what they said because they realized how d**n good Craig is in the role. The only forums heavy with anti-Craig discussions is this place and Alt Bond which are primarily anti-Craig focused, and they're not exactly booming either. Heck this forum wouldn't exist if that lunatic Deanna Brayton hadn't passed on the modding.

[Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry]

I think the gist was that Craig is a divisive Bond, which is fair comment.

[bjmdds]

Why do these pro-Craig's get so worked up? You love him, enjoy him. We don't, and are pleased to say so. To each his or her own, as the saying goes. I cannot wait for the official announcement that CR-egg is gone as Bond.

[stockslivevan]

I think the gist was that Craig is a divisive Bond, which is fair comment.

Fair enough.

Why do these pro-Craig's get so worked up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoEgNW1kb0

[JackWade CIA]

Oh, okay. So what you're all saying is that internet forums debating Craig = Craig Failed, No Questions

*faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrt*

Nerd forums do not reflect the opinions of everyone else outside. I mean before CR came out Craig was condemned by most of the general public and heavily debated on internet forums. Right after CR comes out, a lot of folks took back what they said because they realized how d**n good Craig is in the role. The only forums heavy with anti-Craig discussions is this place and Alt Bond which are primarily anti-Craig focused, and they're not exactly booming either. Heck this forum wouldn't exist if that lunatic Deanna Brayton hadn't passed on the modding.

Lost the moral high ground with that one. I will not dignify that drivel with a response.
Earned you a place on the ignore list

I think the gist was that Craig is a divisive Bond, which is fair comment.

Which it was. Craig is divisive casting, some would say brilliantly so. Me not so much after Qos. They wanted to do a different direction after 20 successful movies but they didn't get far and Craig is still a point a turmoil among many. Maybe not as much as their new age approach to Bond but it is still there. Extraordinary after 2 films and 5 years.

This was not the feeling among enthusiasts 10 years ago or in the early days of the internet in 1995.

[oscartheman]

Happy birthday today to our Moneypenny in California.

When is she coming back anyways?Nothing like a few blockheads around to make her absence felt more.

[stockslivevan]

Lost the moral high ground with that one. I will not dignify that drivel with a response.
Earned you a place on the ignore list

Was it my remark on Deanna Brayton? You obviously hadn't seen her tenure on this site.

When is she coming back anyways?Nothing like a few blockheads around to make her absence felt more.

Heeeey, come on what have I done to you? Hopefully she doesn't. I've heard that trouble with one of the mods were tempted to leave unless she did. I can't blame anyone leaving on her account, she really spoiled this forum.

[carl stromberg]

Why do these pro-Craig's get so worked up? You love him, enjoy him. We don't, and are pleased to say so. To each his or her own, as the saying goes. I cannot wait for the official announcement that CR-egg is gone as Bond.

Because they are losing the argument. You [BJ] were being ridiculed after Casino Royale was released when you said Craig was not Bond and it was a charmless horrid Bourne rip-off. After QOS most agreed! The Craig fans will say "but everyone loved Casino Royale QOS was just a blip etc etc". But most reviews I read suggested people were bored with the new Craig Bond character.

The Craig fans are now seriously suggesting that the only people in the whole world who are bored with Craig's Bond are six people on the DCINB and Alternative007 forums. How can we take these pro-Craigers seriously?

[The Sweeney]

1) The internet forums was no way as popular back in 95 as it is now. If you look at the Bond forums back then, I'd be interested to know how many members resided on them. Also, the power of the internet wasn't in full force like it is today. I doubt anyone back then would use it as an agenda for unhappy fans. Now this is commonplace, not just with Bond, but with other franchises too - Star Trek, Superman, etc.

2) I can accept there are people out there that don't like Craig as Bond, and especially don't like QoS. But you guys also have to understand that not everyone was happy with Brosnan either. Look no further than the other main Bond forums out there, and you will find more dislike towards Brosnan, than the Craig haters here. There are as many DAD haters out there as there are QoS haters, and as many Brozza haters out there as there are Craig haters.

It seems some of you here have trouble accepting this.

[Kristatos]

I can accept there are people out there that don't like Craig as Bond, and especially don't like QoS. But you guys also have to understand that not everyone was happy with Brosnan either. Look no further than the other main Bond forums out there, and you will find more dislike towards Brosnan, than the Craig haters here. There are as many DAD haters out there as there are QoS haters, and as many Brozza haters out there as there are Craig haters.

It seems some of you here have trouble accepting this.

Yes, all the Bond actors, with the possible exception of Connery, have both fans and detractors (people may dislike individual Connery films, particularly the ones he made after Terence Young left the series, but I've never heard anyone say that they don't like him as Bond). The difference with Craig is that around the time of CR's release, a rigid orthodoxy developed whereby the only permissible debate was, pace Stephen Colbert, "Daniel Craig - great Bond or the greatest Bond?" Anyone who dissented was ridiculed as wanting a return to double-taking pigeons and invisible cars. Brosnan was pilloried as a symbol of everything that was wrong with the Bond franchise, often by people who had previously praised his work as Bond. This is fair enough, Bond actors are symbols of the state of the franchise at the time of their tenure. I think BJ is the only person here who has a problem with Craig personally, most of us are just unhappy with the direction the series has taken, and the (mis)casting of Craig is just the most visible manifestation of that. What was nauseating was the hypocricy and groupthink of the fans, strewing Brosnan's path with palm leaves one week and shouting "crucify him" the next. That's why some of us felt the need to set up dissenting forums like this one, where we could be free of the bullying. The trouble is, some of the bullies followed us here (I don't mean you, Sweeney, but some of the other pro-Craigers are not so tolerant).

[The Sweeney]

I can accept there are people out there that don't like Craig as Bond, and especially don't like QoS. But you guys also have to understand that not everyone was happy with Brosnan either. Look no further than the other main Bond forums out there, and you will find more dislike towards Brosnan, than the Craig haters here. There are as many DAD haters out there as there are QoS haters, and as many Brozza haters out there as there are Craig haters.

It seems some of you here have trouble accepting this.

Yes, all the Bond actors, with the possible exception of Connery, have both fans and detractors (people may dislike individual Connery films, particularly the ones he made after Terence Young left the series, but I've never heard anyone say that they don't like him as Bond). The difference with Craig is that around the time of CR's release, a rigid orthodoxy developed whereby the only permissible debate was, pace Stephen Colbert, "Daniel Craig - great Bond or the greatest Bond?" Anyone who dissented was ridiculed as wanting a return to double-taking pigeons and invisible cars. Brosnan was pilloried as a symbol of everything that was wrong with the Bond franchise, often by people who had previously praised his work as Bond. This is fair enough, Bond actors are symbols of the state of the franchise at the time of their tenure. I think BJ is the only person here who has a problem with Craig personally, most of us are just unhappy with the direction the series has taken, and the (mis)casting of Craig is just the most visible manifestation of that. What was nauseating was the hypocricy and groupthink of the fans, strewing Brosnan's path with palm leaves one week and shouting "crucify him" the next. That's why some of us felt the need to set up dissenting forums like this one, where we could be free of the bullying. The trouble is, some of the bullies followed us here (I don't mean you, Sweeney, but some of the other pro-Craigers are not so tolerant).

Fair enough, Kris. I'm actually starting to see a slight shift on other forums towards Craig now though. CR is not held in such a high regard as it once was with quite a few members - which makes me wonder whether this sudden turn off is brought about by either -

a) Fans being fickle. They love the latest thing, the flavour of the month, then diss it later when it's old news.
b) QoS changed certain fans viewpoint on the Craig era as a whole (obviously I am not one of them. I still love CR, but not a big fan of QoS.)

[Harvey Wallbanger]

How many bond fans are online? -20 thousand maybe counting all the various hangouts -out of 70 million who pay to watch the films.

The Craig battalion claim universal love and acceptance -even in these small numbers. Truth is my real world day to day life I find a mix of people so who like and more who dislike Craig but then I am in America and work a bar -where the Bond ideal has never wavered. The recent the talk of replacing him nobody is all that bothered by the idea. -even the ones who love him.

[The Sweeney]

How many bond fans are online? -20 thousand maybe counting all the various hangouts -out of 70 million who pay to watch the films.

The Craig battalion claim universal love and acceptance -even in these small numbers. Truth is my real world day to day life I find a mix of people so who like and more who dislike Craig but then I am in America and work a bar -where the Bond ideal has never wavered. The recent the talk of replacing him nobody is all that bothered by the idea. -even the ones who love him.

I think its fair to say he has been accepted by more than just the Bond internet community, otherwise no one on Planet Earth would have turned up to see QoS at the cinema......

[Harvey Wallbanger]

The folks who tuned up thought they were there to see a james Bond movie not another vanilla Craig action movie.

[Kristatos]

I think its fair to say he has been accepted by more than just the Bond internet community, otherwise no one on Planet Earth would have turned up to see QoS at the cinema......

They didn't. Well, not after its first couple of weeks, anyway.

[Skywalker]

It would be interesting to know how many people who went to see QOS actually enjoyed the film.

[bjmdds]

I can accept there are people out there that don't like Craig as Bond, and especially don't like QoS. But you guys also have to understand that not everyone was happy with Brosnan either. Look no further than the other main Bond forums out there, and you will find more dislike towards Brosnan, than the Craig haters here. There are as many DAD haters out there as there are QoS haters, and as many Brozza haters out there as there are Craig haters.

It seems some of you here have trouble accepting this.

Yes, all the Bond actors, with the possible exception of Connery, have both fans and detractors (people may dislike individual Connery films, particularly the ones he made after Terence Young left the series, but I've never heard anyone say that they don't like him as Bond). The difference with Craig is that around the time of CR's release, a rigid orthodoxy developed whereby the only permissible debate was, pace Stephen Colbert, "Daniel Craig - great Bond or the greatest Bond?" Anyone who dissented was ridiculed as wanting a return to double-taking pigeons and invisible cars. Brosnan was pilloried as a symbol of everything that was wrong with the Bond franchise, often by people who had previously praised his work as Bond. This is fair enough, Bond actors are symbols of the state of the franchise at the time of their tenure. I think BJ is the only person here who has a problem with Craig personally, most of us are just unhappy with the direction the series has taken, and the (mis)casting of Craig is just the most visible manifestation of that. What was nauseating was the hypocricy and groupthink of the fans, strewing Brosnan's path with palm leaves one week and shouting "crucify him" the next. That's why some of us felt the need to set up dissenting forums like this one, where we could be free of the bullying. The trouble is, some of the bullies followed us here (I don't mean you, Sweeney, but some of the other pro-Craigers are not so tolerant).

Fair enough, Kris. I'm actually starting to see a slight shift on other forums towards Craig now though. CR is not held in such a high regard as it once was with quite a few members - which makes me wonder whether this sudden turn off is brought about by either -

a) Fans being fickle. They love the latest thing, the flavour of the month, then diss it later when it's old news.
b) QoS changed certain fans viewpoint on the Craig era as a whole (obviously I am not one of them. I still love CR, but not a big fan of QoS.)

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

[The Sweeney]

I think its fair to say he has been accepted by more than just the Bond internet community, otherwise no one on Planet Earth would have turned up to see QoS at the cinema......

They didn't. Well, not after its first couple of weeks, anyway.

What caused everyone to rush out and see it in the first couple of weeks though (record numbers too)?

If everyone on Planet Earth despised Craig so much after seeing him in CR, only the MI6 and CBn gang would have turned up at the cinema - but this was not the case....

[The Sweeney]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

[stockslivevan]

I think its fair to say he has been accepted by more than just the Bond internet community, otherwise no one on Planet Earth would have turned up to see QoS at the cinema......

They didn't. Well, not after its first couple of weeks, anyway.

What caused everyone to rush out and see it in the first couple of weeks though (record numbers too)?

If everyone on Planet Earth despised Craig so much after seeing him in CR, only the MI6 and CBn gang would have turned up at the cinema - but this was not the case....

Indeed a lot of folks (especially here) said that the opening for QOS would be an indicator of how many people liked his Bond enough in CR to come back for his second film.

You can say Bond 23's opening might be effected by the general disappointment of QOS, I don't doubt it. However I think there will be plenty of people coming up on opening weekend in the hopes of Craig having a film about as good as CR. We'll see when we get there.