The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

paco chaos · Post by **paco chaos** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:59 am

bjmdds wrote:
stockslivevan wrote:
bjmdds wrote:The torture scene at the beginning of DAD was quite a violent scene in Bond film history and to me, outdoes Craig's genital torture scene in CR
You're right. What was I thinking? After being kept in a Korean prison camp for full 14 months, always being woke up by ice water, being stung by scorpions, beaten down daily while having your wrists cuffed all those months, never once being treated like a human being. Infact, the torture was so brutal that it had vital effects on Bond physically and mentally. So severe that the day after he is released from that hell hole, Bond stopped his own heart, was revived with a defibrulator, used it to overpower the staff, then jumped overboard and swam across Hong Kong harbor to his favorite 5-star hotel and walking in it as if he never got a scratch from the whole ordeal despite he didn't have the excercise to perform all that.

A brutal torture that must have been to him.
And Craig's Bond having Vesper sitting on his lap while recovering from a genital pounding as well as romancing on a beach makes sense?

yeah, I wondered about that one myself.

Post by **bjmdds** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:02 am

paco chaos wrote:
bjmdds wrote:
stockslivevan wrote:
bjmdds wrote:The torture scene at the beginning of DAD was quite a violent scene in Bond film history and to me, outdoes Craig's genital torture scene in CR
You're right. What was I thinking? After being kept in a Korean prison camp for full 14 months, always being woke up by ice water, being stung by scorpions, beaten down daily while having your wrists cuffed all those months, never once being treated like a human being. Infact, the torture was so brutal that it had vital effects on Bond physically and mentally. So severe that the day after he is released from that hell hole, Bond stopped his own heart, was revived with a defibrulator, used it to overpower the staff, then jumped overboard and swam across Hong Kong harbor to his favorite 5-star hotel and walking in it as if he never got a scratch from the whole ordeal despite he didn't have the excercise to perform all that.

A brutal torture that must have been to him.
And Craig's Bond having Vesper sitting on his lap while recovering from a genital pounding as well as romancing on a beach makes sense?
yeah, I wondered about that one myself.

They do not see the flaws in CR Paco, just those in DAD. By the way, the Hugh Jackman as Bond videos in this website portray an excellent read on what Bond would be like with him in the role. Hats off to the producers!

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:08 am

I'm right behind Stocks on this one. After 18 months of sheer hell, Bond hasn't lost any weight, and other than a beard and long hair is no different. Give me a break. The walking into the hotel after his escape was one of the worst moments in Bond history for me. The Bond I know would've at least buttoned up his pyjama top.

stockslivevan · Post by **stockslivevan** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:20 am

bjmdds wrote:And Craig's Bond having Vesper sitting on his lap while recovering from a genital pounding as well as romancing on a beach makes sense?

After a couple days of recovery from a five minute torture pounding? Yes.

Suddenly back in shape 24 hours after you were released from a Korean prison camp experiencing 14 months of non-stop torture? Rediculous. Just by having Bond do that the whole torture sequence no longer means anything. You might as well have had Bond relaxing in a 5-star hotel in Korea for 14 months and there wouldn't be a difference.

It's not like the moment Bond said "I'm yours" he suddenly hopped off his wheelchair and made mad love with Vesper like Roger Moore did in Octopussy. They actually showed some progression moving from a sunny day with Bond in a wheelchair to a rainy day with Bond fully recovered. How long was it between these scenes? We don't know. I could say a whole week or two but I have nothing to back that up, but neither would you if you claimed it only occurred a whole day later.

stockslivevan · Post by **stockslivevan** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:37 am

bjmdds wrote:They do not see the flaws in CR Paco, just those in DAD.

I actually do see flaws in CR. I thought the whole Vesper relationship should have developed starting with when they met, rather than right after the torture sequence and having a whole montage of lovemaking between the two stretched out. However, it doesn't ruin the film as a whole for me because the rest of it I think is just d**n good that it doesn't really bring it down in the end. With DAD however, it's like one scene after another there is something wrong. I don't go to see Bond movie to nitpick but when DAD has something wrong with every scene you really don't have to nitpick because it's just telling you everything that's wrong which is why a lot of people consider it to be among the worst of Bond. I and many fans didn't go see CR to nitpick certain irrelevant things like breaking through walls, but there happen to be people who are like that, esspecially those who never once gave Craig a shot and trashed him since day one.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:17 pm

bjmdds wrote:
They do not see the flaws in CR Paco, just those in DAD.

True bj......mainly because there are faaaaaaar more flaws in DAD than there are in CR. Simple mathematics really.

Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:29 pm

Die Another Day was supposed to be an unambiguously over the top Moonraker type Bond adventure to celebrate the Bond anniversary. Casino Royale was supposed to be a serious take on Casino Royale (because, apparently, everyone was bored with James Bond movies) and therefore serious actor Daniel Craig was brought in to play a serious James Bond in a serious movie because he was the only actor serious enough to be convincing as a serious James Bond.

Now, those who were calling for a serious Bond are backtracking, saying that Casino Royale was -after all - a fantasy and just like a traditional James Bond movie. They are right. Casino Royale had it's stupid moments, along with a big lull in the middle to try and suggest it was a serious character driven piece. But lacked someone who looked and acted like James Bond........

Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:03 pm

stockslivevan wrote:. I and many fans didn't go see CR to nitpick certain irrelevant things like breaking through walls, but there happen to be people who are like that, esspecially those who never once gave Craig a shot and trashed him since day one.

It's like educating pork with you Stock.

The breaking through walls is a huge issue for me as you are aware. I stated in my 'review' (something you have yet to publish on this site) that I gave Craig every chance.

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:52 pm

Skywalker wrote:
stockslivevan wrote:. I and many fans didn't go see CR to nitpick certain irrelevant things like breaking through walls, but there happen to be people who are like that, esspecially those who never once gave Craig a shot and trashed him since day one.
It's like educating pork with you Stock.

The breaking through walls is a huge issue for me as you are aware. I stated in my 'review' (something you have yet to publish on this site) that I gave Craig every chance.

So anyone who hasn't posted a review of CR doesn't carry any weight with you then Anakin?

Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:25 pm

Captain Nash wrote:
Skywalker wrote:
stockslivevan wrote:. I and many fans didn't go see CR to nitpick certain irrelevant things like breaking through walls, but there happen to be people who are like that, esspecially those who never once gave Craig a shot and trashed him since day one.
It's like educating pork with you Stock.

The breaking through walls is a huge issue for me as you are aware. I stated in my 'review' (something you have yet to publish on this site) that I gave Craig every chance.
So anyone who hasn't posted a review of CR doesn't carry any weight with you then Anakin?

No just you and Stock.

stockslivevan · Post by **stockslivevan** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:49 pm

Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:Die Another Day was supposed to be an unambiguously over the top Moonraker type Bond adventure to celebrate the Bond anniversary.

Yes, it was supposed to be. But it failed because it lacked charm, terrible dialogue, Brosnan isn't consistent, directed by a hack who terribly executed a script that showed promise of a good spy action/thriller, unnecessary overuse of third rate CGI and so on.

An OTT film would have been fine as long as it actually worked and had charm to it. DAD didn't, it was just trying cash in on the XXX type action junk with a couple of Bond "homages" that were tacked on for bad humor in very unsubtle way. If I wanted an OTT Bond film with the right amount of action, style, humor and scope I would use The Spy Who Loved Me as an example and use that as the blueprint, only actually improve the formula and put a spin in it. Instead, we had an MTV style The Spy Who Loved Me.

It was no doubt successful, financially. However the big numbers don't match with the enthusiasm with fans and general audiences if you look at various sites with collective opinions. Casino Royale, however, has. It didn't please exactly everyone, but it pleased most. If you don't believe that, just look at the collective reviews of fans and critics from plenty of websites, not just one selected bad review of the few that you guys proudly post as threads.

stockslivevan · Post by **stockslivevan** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:50 pm

Skywalker wrote:
Captain Nash wrote:
Skywalker wrote:
stockslivevan wrote:. I and many fans didn't go see CR to nitpick certain irrelevant things like breaking through walls, but there happen to be people who are like that, esspecially those who never once gave Craig a shot and trashed him since day one.
It's like educating pork with you Stock.

The breaking through walls is a huge issue for me as you are aware. I stated in my 'review' (something you have yet to publish on this site) that I gave Craig every chance.
So anyone who hasn't posted a review of CR doesn't carry any weight with you then Anakin?
No just you and Stock.

Never thought I needed to post a review since everyone seems to know where I stand. But I suppose I'll be less vague with my thoughts on CR and post them on the review section, with positive AND negative insights.

Post by **bjmdds** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:21 pm

The Sweeney wrote:
bjmdds wrote:
They do not see the flaws in CR Paco, just those in DAD.
True bj......mainly because there are faaaaaaar more flaws in DAD than there are in CR. Simple mathematics really.

I knew the very mention of those 3 letters, DAD, would bring you out Sweeney. Sweeney:DAD as Oil:water, they cannot be mixed. Tell me, have you had enough of Dench as M, for with Craig's Bond, M=Mother? How about Dench's M retiring and a male M brought back, or will Broccoli continue this trend with female M's?

Post by **bjmdds** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:26 pm

Captain Nash wrote:I'm right behind Stocks on this one. After 18 months of sheer hell, Bond hasn't lost any weight, and other than a beard and long hair is no different. Give me a break. The walking into the hotel after his escape was one of the worst moments in Bond history for me. The Bond I know would've at least buttoned up his pyjama top.

Nash, I am surprised at you, being a trivia expert on Bond. It was not 18 months Bond was captured for, unless you typed the wrong numbers. You did not think Brosnan looked thinner walking over the bridge in the exchange for his Korean counterpart?

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:45 pm

bjmdds wrote:
Captain Nash wrote:I'm right behind Stocks on this one. After 18 months of sheer hell, Bond hasn't lost any weight, and other than a beard and long hair is no different. Give me a break. The walking into the hotel after his escape was one of the worst moments in Bond history for me. The Bond I know would've at least buttoned up his pyjama top.
Nash, I am surprised at you, being a trivia expert on Bond. It was not 18 months Bond was captured for, unless you typed the wrong numbers. You did not think Brosnan looked thinner walking over the bridge in the exchange for his Korean counterpart?

No I didn't. After such an apparently horrible ordeal, Bond looked no different, and after a haircut and a shave was as good as new. It made the opening originality and prospect to look into this story meaningless. And for me the film just doesn't recover. There are moments when Bond is there, but for me DAD is not a Bond film. At least not one that I watch fondly, that I can enjoy. All the other Bond films don't do that for me. That's just me.
As for the time mistake, DAD is not one of my most watched Bond films, I thought it was 18 months, but it was 14 months if I'm not wrong?

paco chaos · Post by **paco chaos** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:12 pm

I'm sorry but in the book of Casino Royale, it states that the torture Bond endured at the hands of Le Chiffre caused scarring, and he didn't recover quite as fast as he did in the film. in fact it almost made it sound as if he had his nads beaten to pulp. yet in the film version they had him in much better shape alot faster. But I was under the impression that Casino Royale was truer to the books than the other films, and on a superficial level it is. but it still had OTT moments, such as the crane sequence, the sinking building, the poisoning, and Vesper sitting in Bond's lap. of which, none of these things occurred in the book.

Post by **bjmdds** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:21 pm

Captain Nash wrote:
bjmdds wrote:
Captain Nash wrote:I'm right behind Stocks on this one. After 18 months of sheer hell, Bond hasn't lost any weight, and other than a beard and long hair is no different. Give me a break. The walking into the hotel after his escape was one of the worst moments in Bond history for me. The Bond I know would've at least buttoned up his pyjama top.
Nash, I am surprised at you, being a trivia expert on Bond. It was not 18 months Bond was captured for, unless you typed the wrong numbers. You did not think Brosnan looked thinner walking over the bridge in the exchange for his Korean counterpart?
No I didn't. After such an apparently horrible ordeal, Bond looked no different, and after a haircut and a shave was as good as new. It made the opening originality and prospect to look into this story meaningless. And for me the film just doesn't recover. There are moments when Bond is there, but for me DAD is not a Bond film. At least not one that I watch fondly, that I can enjoy. All the other Bond films don't do that for me. That's just me.
As for the time mistake, DAD is not one of my most watched Bond films, I thought it was 18 months, but it was 14 months if I'm not wrong?

Do you know what is so interesting about what you said Nash, in regards to DAD, which I have yet to see on ANY Bond website, be it here, CommanderBond.net, MI6, etc? You said DAD is NOT a Bond film to you, with Bond,M,and Q all present. Yet you do feel CR is a Bond film to you, without the usual cast of characters. That is your entitled opinion but I never heard that stated anywhere before. So now you know how I feel about Casino Royale.

Post by **bjmdds** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:24 pm

paco chaos wrote:I'm sorry but in the book of Casino Royale, it states that the torture Bond endured at the hands of Le Chiffre caused scarring, and he didn't recover quite as fast as he did in the film. in fact it almost made it sound as if he had his nads beaten to pulp. yet in the film version they had him in much better shape alot faster. But I was under the impression that Casino Royale was truer to the books than the other films, and on a superficial level it is. but it still had OTT moments, such as the crane sequence, the sinking building, the poisoning, and Vesper sitting in Bond's lap. of which, none of these things occurred in the book.

Agree Paco, the CR torture scene would have left Bond incapacitated for quite some time. How long did Vesper wait for the code to be revealed from Bond in the film? Unknown........

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:10 am

It's unknown how long the time from Bonds torture till his recovery from it takes place. Of course being a film it can't take place in real time. It may have taken the course of a couple of weeks. The issue is not a biggy for me. But I'm slightly biased.

Post by **Skywalker** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:29 pm

Captain Nash wrote:It's unknown how long the time from Bonds torture till his recovery from it takes place. Of course being a film it can't take place in real time. It may have taken the course of a couple of weeks. The issue is not a biggy for me. But I'm slightly biased.

Agreed Pluto. It wasn't a big issue for me either and you explained your reason well.