The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[Kristatos]

A Hugo Chavez type would make a great Bond villian.

Well, Bond did help crush the Cuban rebels in one of the novels, despite finding the job distasteful. The question is whether a hero who was unfailingly on the side of the rich and powerful (such as Chavez's opponents in both Washington and Caracas) would resonate with a modern audience. I went to a screenwriting seminar once where we were taught that the hero should always be outside "the system" somewhat. I believe this thinking was behind the subtle shift in Bond's character during the Brosnan era, from "Her Majesty's loyal terrier" to more of your standard-issue Hollywood "wild and crazy maverick who's always having to justify his antics to the Commissioner".

[oscartheman]

The Bourne Ultimatum must have made Damon very happy to act in, given his liberal disdain for the very country that supports his acting income. The Bourne Mimicry even copied this political undertone as well making the USA and the UK governments out to be the bad guys. Since when is this a popular premise? Why do they get away with it? Why is there NO mention of this by any movie critics out there? Are they in agreement with Eon on this premise? Probably. As MGW said recently, "if we can get away with such a movie title, we can get away with anything." Maybe that is the problem. The public is apathetic and just goes along for the ride.

In the UK, people are generally p!ssed off with politicians, after the Iraq war and now the banks failing left, right and centre. I think the general public really have no faith in the government anymore - hence why no one has bothered to mention the political angle in QoS.

What about in the US? I guess you've all had your faith restored recently with your new president being elected....

Obamas arrogance is worrying. He can't be questions so when he f____s up and he will nobody can get angry all that will happen is the press will rub his shoulder telling him "you tired champ".People are pissed he is hiring the same old insiders the Clintons had. See what happens to the reporter who faced Obamas indigence at being questions about this.It needed to be followed up with you my be at the head wanting change but bringing in the same old cronies as youre experts and will advise you filling in for your ignorance, it's not change.You will end up repeating the fame fail policies of the past.

Bush f___ed up by not changing strategy and leaving idiots in charge and not firing them.HE also wouldn't defend his policies and had some of the worst communication with the american people in a long time.His belief is to act above the partisanship trust people to learn the details on their own and let history judge it fairly.
Meanwhile since 2003 the dems were working on a antiwar theme for their strategy undermining the press and public understanding of why things were happening and why it was being fought.To this day all of the major heads will tell you the Iraq was not a mistake, from the jews to the brits all maintain Iraq was the right choice and the world is better having it out of the way.The same people who blast Iraq bitch about other counties Syria and Iran wanting a Iraq styled answer to them :roll:It's Tony Blare trying to explain things to Jon Stewart x1000 with Jon running off at the mouth with the liberal agenda not listing to word not wanting to hear a word.this is where eon is coming from now.

Most people do not feel the same way Roger Moore does.We know bush F___ed and want victory so the fight isn't needed.We do not view ourselves as the bad guys and the those of us that are truly bad in the government are few and we trust that we do more good than harm and that our intentions are to do good with out thought of reward.As our food and aid programs do everyday and as our armys navys and air forces do for us everywhere in world every day.Deep down we believe the people we fight are the bad guys and we have to fight them becasue of what will happen if we don't.Bond used to believe that too.

[Omega]

File it under News that I will not elaborate on and leave it as that.

A dvd has turned up for Quantum already. Almost six months early by my count. Soon to be in every flea market nationwide.

[katied]

How many doors, windows, and glass frames can Craig's Bond break through without breaking a single bone in his body, no limping, no apparant loss of function, just facial cuts as the end result?

I agree with that.And also?The free fall,anyone?

This film looked like it was quickly edited as well, and the Bond gun firing sequence at the end was no change for the better as well.

A lot of people have told me they had a hard time following what was going on and some of that is down to the editing, IMO

Vesper's boyfriend's role was far too short.

Agreed.I didn't think we found out much of anything about him. Very unsatisfying

By the way, there were 18 people TOTAL in the noon time showing on Thanksgiving in the theatre. That does not bode well for the film's long term success.

My current viewing total stands at 3(we never did go to see it on Thanksgiving like we were planning to)

[Harvey Wallbanger]

I just came back from seeing The Bourne Mimicry, official title is Quantum Of Solace. First of all, I just watched The Bourne Ultimatum two night's ago. I did not like the rapid skaking cameras during the fight scenes in The Bourne Ultimatum and I certainly felt the same way about The Bourne Mimicry. I felt as if I was watching the same film twice in terms of action, car chases, roof top chases, etc. Pure Mimicry. For those who delve into this 'realistic' portrayal of Bond by Craig, I have this to say. How many doors, windows, and glass frames can Craig's Bond break through without breaking a single bone in his body, no limping, no apparant loss of function, just facial cuts as the end result? If Brosnan had done this, he would have been mocked. Next, the Superman flying routine by Craig out of the plane was a mockery as well, and again, Brosnan would have been laughed at for that same scene. There was also a disturbing underlying political theme in this film which no review anywhere has addressed and it goes to Craig's, Haggis', Forster's, and even Eon's it seems, liberal political view of the world. This film portayed the USA and the UK as the 'bad guys' in the world whose only ambition was to obtain oil at any cost. Craig's Bond statement to M in regards to the USA and oil was a direct attack on USA policies. In Connery's era, we knew who the bad countries were and it was left to the USA and the UK to save the world. There was a deliberate shot taken by the producers/director/writer of TBM in their obvious protest to the Iraq war, where the USA and the UK were at the forefront, to cast a negative light on both of our governments, and I personally take offense at it. This film had little ecological underlying themes to me, and the villains and the poverty stricken back drops were totally unappealing as well. This film looked like it was quickly edited as well, and the Bond gun firing sequence at the end was no change for the better as well. TBM is a Rambo,Transporter, Bourne, Die Hard type of film. The theme song was trash. Vesper's boyfriend's role was far too short. I found little if any feel to this as a Bond film. Again, Craig is NOT Bond. In all, not a film I care to see twice in the theatres, and I would rather watch NSNA instead. At least that film was based on a TRUE Bond character. By the way, there were 18 people TOTAL in the noon time showing on Thanksgiving in the theatre. That does not bode well for the film's long term success.

Interesting review bj, and you are right about the politics angle. I honestyly think you are the first person to bring it up, but you do have a point. There was definitely an underlying anti American agenda in the film....

in 07 I tried sound the warning -when Ms Broccoli sent Bill Oreilly a email blasting him and going on about how great Cindy Sheehan is

[bjmdds]

Harvey? Is that true? I did not know this. Broccoli was a Cindy Sheehan supporter? No wonder she went along with this garbage. This for me now goes beyond Craig as Bond. If she was so against USA/UK foreign policy, it showed in TBM. Funny thing, all of these so-called liberal pacifists in Hollywood make the most violent movies they can dream up, yet, when life imitates art, and terrorism hits, these same Hollywood liberals have NO clue how to defend their countries. Just look at India's situation now. Maybe some day these people will realize that bad people really are out there. I think Hillary Clinton becoming Secretary of State will be a useless appointment. Can you imagine her dealing with these countries under these times as big Bill seeks some new females to meet overseas?

[carl stromberg]

I don't think any people were offended by the plot as it was muddled and tacked onto a mindless action film! I think the producers struggled for a plot, so they put some of their own political ideas into the script. Daniel Craig has expressed these sentiments on occasions, so he may have put in some ideas. The plot has been called dull. On BBC Radio4's Front Row, the reviewers (who could probably be termed as "progressive") asked why Eon were making a Bond film aimed at "Guardian readers". These may or not be worthy issues to address, but tacking them onto a badly made Daniel Craig action fest may have been a bit eccentric.

[Kristatos]

These may or not be worthy issues to address, but tacking them onto a badly made Daniel Craig action fest may have been a bit eccentric.

Having finally seen the film (a week earlier than anticipated due to a change in my wife's work schedule). I'm inclined to agree. Full review to follow. Short version:

[bjmdds]

Several other NY papers have panned TBM. I do not understand why this weekend, even though it is Thanksgiving, will see such an increase at the box office for it. At this rate, EON could make the next film under 1 hour in length,show it 37 times per day,and the public will pay to see it just because it is a Bond film.

[Mazer Rackham]

Several other NY papers have panned TBM. I do not understand why this weekend, even though it is Thanksgiving, will see such an increase at the box office for it. At this rate, EON could make the next film under 1 hour in length,show it 37 times per day,and the public will pay to see it just because it is a Bond film.

The Film doesn't matter on this holiday shopping weekend.It is the theater count and ticket availability. The history of Black Friday BO weekend illustrates this very clearly. Madagascar 2 took $6m, a movie that has bee out since Nov 7th.
On a packed shopping day where there are millions of unwilling tag-a-longs in the malls and shopping centers the movies are cheap way to rest tired feet for an hour or two and keep the kids entertained.

Some parents treat it like a babysitter leaving the kids there all day. Theaters owners used to complain about the kids who bought 1 ticket and floated to various showings all day then the realization hit that they make more money from sell those kit snacks than the tickets themselves.

[The Sweeney]

Several other NY papers have panned TBM. I do not understand why this weekend, even though it is Thanksgiving, will see such an increase at the box office for it. At this rate, EON could make the next film under 1 hour in length,show it 37 times per day,and the public will pay to see it just because it is a Bond film.

We still have a little bet, remember BJ? You predicted QoS will do less at the BO than CR, and I predicted it would do more.

Still confident, or should I get this ready in the oven for you?



This will be your second round for this pie, if I recall correctly.....

[English Agent]

Well 'Sweeney' and 'bj'

this bet of yours.......cant remember if it was for US BO or Total Worldwide BO!

......as things stand as of this Sunday evening GMT.

I would say now that QOS will surpass CR at the North American BO...................but if the bet is on the latter, it could be very close indeed, and could be detemined by the performance of the film in Japan (which is not tradionally a big Bond market), where it could yield between $20-25 mil.

Looking at the US boxoffice between QOS and CR after 3 weekends, QOS is some $26 mil ahead, but you can look at this in another way, basically the difference is the same as after the huge opening of QOS after opening w/end, so you could say that in all reality based on all things being equal that QOS has fallen away a little steeper, if you take into account ticket price inflation.

QOS, i would say could end up with around $180 mil in North America, which is a good figure, but not as good as it should of been, had the film been a cracker, and taking into account the publics expectations by the large number of admissions on opening weekend. It was lucky for Sony, that Harry Pothead was re-scheduled as this could of significantly taken the limelight away from QOS.

All in all though, taking inflation into account QOS is no more of a success in this market than CR or DAD, and has failed to break the $200 mil barrier again.

Overseas, the film has done very well considering the strong dollar, which has robbed the film of a lot of money, and the fact the film has had some big dropoffs in some markets, such as 60% in Australia and Spain this weekend.
Nevertheless, film has still managed to gross a very impressive $340 mil so far, some $90 mil now behind CR!

Current estimated Worldwide total for QOS = $482 million (not bad)............half a billion will be reached sometime next weekend.

EA

[bjmdds]

The UK had only $2.4 million this weekend and $75 million total. It is well behind the $105 million CR did and surpassing that in the UK will be difficult. It already dropped off a lot in Australia as well. I want to see the actual USA numbers for the holiday weekend. TBM had a bump up Friday, then tailed off. Now that the Holiday is done, this week will show what is left. It cannot possibly beat TBU's USA take.

[Mazer Rackham]

here are this weekends estimates. Surprising how close the top 3 are.
Quark did about as expected and may drop off a little when the finale numbers come in. Oddly its Saturday take was lower than its Fridays

1 Four Christmases $31,680,000
2 Bolt $26,596,000
3 Twilight $26,370,000
4 Quantum of Solace $19,500,000
5 Australia $14,815,000
6 Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa $14,500,000
7 Transporter 3 $12,330,000

[Harvey Wallbanger]

Harvey? Is that true? I did not know this. Broccoli was a Cindy Sheehan supporter? No wonder she went along with this garbage. This for me now goes beyond Craig as Bond. If she was so against USA/UK foreign policy, it showed in TBM. Funny thing, all of these so-called liberal pacifists in Hollywood make the most violent movies they can dream up, yet, when life imitates art, and terrorism hits, these same Hollywood liberals have NO clue how to defend their countries. Just look at India's situation now. Maybe some day these people will realize that bad people really are out there. I think Hillary Clinton becoming Secretary of State will be a useless appointment. Can you imagine her dealing with these countries under these times as big Bill seeks some new females to meet overseas?

03/05/2007 -Bill O's e-mail section.

I missed most of it and nobody else saw it.

[Skywalker]

Whether QOS does well at the box office or not should not deter from the fact it was a poorly made film.

[The Sweeney]

I agree. BO figures don't really bother me anyway. I'd rather have had QoS a much better film than what it is, and not do as well at the BO.

Unfortunately, many here place great significance on BO figures, hence why I've taken a bit of pleasure in ribbing a few here because of their wild negative predictions a few months ago....

[James]

I'm sure I read that QoS had a bigger budget than CR. If it turns out that it's going to make more or less the same amount of money then they aren't exactly tearing up trees with this new era. Consider the incredible promotional blitz that surrounded each Craig film too.

[James]

Whether QOS does well at the box office or not should not deter from the fact it was a poorly made film.

Nope. It was pretty crap.

[James]

The original incarnation was called CraigisnotBond.

The original incarnation was called PierceisBond, before his replacement had even been cast.

I had not heard of PIB before this.
I do know that Babs Broc had wanted to get rid of Brozza much earlier, the studio (MGM) leaked it to test the waters. The Brozza estrogen brigade responded quickly and MGM saw no percentage in replacing him. In fact MGM refused Craig for the role (several times I think), it was not until after Sony bailed them out and Sony came to the helm that Craig was cast. However Sony was not enthused about Craig and required a 24 screen test process after they couldn't convince Babs to go with a more appropriate choice. Sony heads wanted someone else and a few times talked to Brozza about coming back. Once it was done they had no choice but to put there all behind it and of course no dissenting voice would be tolerated (or remembered) in there new happy idealistic nuclear family.

This would explain why Craig was strongly linked to the role early in 2005 then said in interviews a few months later that he was out of the running (and joking about it) before emerging again later in the year to be screentested agaisnt a bunch of 17 year-olds and cast as Bond only a few months before the film started shooting.