The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[The Sweeney]

A couple of people at work saw it over the weekend and found it disappointing. My brother has said on reflection he too is now disappointed with it.

The criticism seems to be the usual suspects too - lack of coherency in action scenes, didn't feel involved, too rushed, lack of decent storyline, not enough quieter moments in the film.

There is definitely a pattern emerging here. These were all people who loved CR too. My mate may have summed it up perfectly by saying going into CR he wasn't expecting anything that great, and was completely blown away afterwards, yet with QoS, the expectations were now extremely high because of CR, and it didn't live up to it.

Is QoS a misunderstood masterpiece, or a film EON just didn't get quite right this time round, despite having decent intentions while making it?

[Kristatos]

There is definitely a pattern emerging here. These were all people who loved CR too. My mate may have summed it up perfectly by saying going into CR he wasn't expecting anything that great, and was completely blown away afterwards, yet with QoS, the expectations were now extremely high because of CR, and it didn't live up to it.

Do you have any mates who didn't like CR, and if so, what was their reaction to QOS?

[The Sweeney]

There is definitely a pattern emerging here. These were all people who loved CR too. My mate may have summed it up perfectly by saying going into CR he wasn't expecting anything that great, and was completely blown away afterwards, yet with QoS, the expectations were now extremely high because of CR, and it didn't live up to it.

Do you have any mates who didn't like CR, and if so, what was their reaction to QOS?

You are going to find this hard to believe, but no. I don't know anyone personally who did not like CR. The same cannot be said with QoS. Just about everyone I've spoken to either hated it, thought it was just ok but nowhere near as good as CR, or thought it was great first time round, but have since found it disappointing (and a few of these have only seen it once. This was just reflecting on the film afterwards after the one viewing... )

It's beginning to look like EON have fallen short of the mark.......again!

EDIT: I tell a lie. Actually one of my mates found CR a little boring, not enough action, but didn't like QoS either because it didn't feel like a Bond film. He wanted gadgets, comedy, Q, etc. but I can't really count his opinion, because he liked DAD......

[Kristatos]

EDIT: I tell a lie. Actually one of my mates found CR a little boring, not enough action, but didn't like QoS either because it didn't feel like a Bond film. He wanted gadgets, comedy, Q, etc. but I can't really count his opinion, because he liked DAD......

OK, so I still don't know what I'm going to make of QOS when I finally see it a week next Saturday (courtesy of Mazer Rackham - cheers, Mazer). Based on what I've heard, I'll probably like it better than CR, but will come out wishing they hadn't opted to uses shakycam techniques (I'm with Spielberg on this).

[Mazer Rackham]

EDIT: I tell a lie. Actually one of my mates found CR a little boring, not enough action, but didn't like QoS either because it didn't feel like a Bond film. He wanted gadgets, comedy, Q, etc. but I can't really count his opinion, because he liked DAD......

“Help, Help, I’m Being Repressed!”

[English Agent]

EDIT: I tell a lie. Actually one of my mates found CR a little boring, not enough action, but didn't like QoS either because it didn't feel like a Bond film. He wanted gadgets, comedy, Q, etc. but I can't really count his opinion, because he liked DAD......

OK, so I still don't know what I'm going to make of QOS when I finally see it a week next Saturday (courtesy of Mazer Rackham - cheers, Mazer). Based on what I've heard, I'll probably like it better than CR, but will come out wishing they hadn't opted to uses shakycam techniques (I'm with Spielberg on this).

Hope u enjoy the film.......and look forward to your review 'Kris'

btw: i'am with Spielberg on this current issue of camera filming too!

EA

[Mazer Rackham]

Final numbers are in:

Code: Select all

1 Twilight $69,637,740 	
2 Quark $26,707,945 [color=#FF0000]-60.4%[/color]
3 Bolt 	$26,223,128

Needless to say Bolt is a crushing disappointment for Disney.

looking at Twilights estimate and the actual #s you can see why Quarks final drop (last week) surprised so many.

[bjmdds]

Officially TBM dropped off 60.4% it's second USA weekend. No spinning , no sugar coating, no excuses Pro-Craig brigade. The experiment in originality by Eon/Haggis/Forster AND Craig, is NOT paying off this time. Craig has now boxed himself into his stereotypic brand of Bond. He cannot return the franchise to normalcy. It MUST be done with a fresh, pleasant, and more traditional Bond actor. With so many screenings, this film should have kicked butt at the box office. I still cannot believe the amount of negative reviews worldwide. You Pro-Craig lot may spin the positives all you like but bottom line, I have NEVER in 46 years of this franchise, and I mean NEVER, seen and heard such negativity about any other Bond film like I am with TBM. Those Craig clones at MI6 are in for a rude awakening. Even Eon's payoffs to them(do not think that is not happening) will not stop the demise of Craig's time as Bond and I for one will be glad when it happens. He is a horrible choice for Bond and Eon has become a joke of a production company.

[katied]

Sorry,but I think Purvis and Wade need to be jettisoned(the"Vesper had a kid" plot,anyone? )

[bjmdds]

Sorry,but I think Purvis and Wade need to be jettisoned(the"Vesper had a kid" plot,anyone? )

I forgot about them. Correctamundo MP.

[Skywalker]

Just got back from the cinema having watched QOS (Review to be written this weekend). It was definitely a strange film with regards to the fact I enjoyed parts of it yet found other segments extremely poor. The 'shakeycam' was truly horrendous and severely affected the flow of the film. The PTS in particular was badly affected by Forster's bizarre camerawork given that the action sequence was impressive and included some great stunt work.

DC proved he is a very good action type actor, yet he is so far removed from what Bond should be it's untrue. There were moments in the film that showed he could still potentially deliver a Bondesque performance if only he could be given the right material to work with. I particulary loved the Bolivian hotel scene with 'Strawberry Fields' with Bond refusing the initial hotel and then calmly and confidently booking them in to the Grand hotel.

Like I mentioned earlier, I will write a full review this weekend.

[English Agent]

Just got back from the cinema having watched QOS (Review to be written this weekend). It was definitely a strange film with regards to the fact I enjoyed parts of it yet found other segments extremely poor. The 'shakeycam' was truly horrendous and severely affected the flow of the film. The PTS in particular was badly affected by Forster's bizarre camerawork given that the action sequence was impressive and included some great stunt work.

DC proved he is a very good action type actor, yet he is so far removed from what Bond should be it's untrue. There were moments in the film that showed he could still potentially deliver a Bondesque performance if only he could be given the right material to work with. I particulary loved the Bolivian hotel scene with 'Strawberry Fields' with Bond refusing the initial hotel and then calmly and confidently booking them in to the Grand hotel.

Like I mentioned earlier, I will write a full review this weekend.

Thanks 'Skywalker'

I agree with your review.........IMO the poorly directed and edited action scenes was a massive dissapointment to me.

Whats frustrating whether you like DC or not, was that there was potentially a very good Bond film in there somewhere.

But, as many people have said, a few good scenes is not enough to make a great movie.

Look forward to your full review.

EA

[The Sweeney]

Officially TBM dropped off 60.4% it's second USA weekend. No spinning , no sugar coating, no excuses Pro-Craig brigade. The experiment in originality by Eon/Haggis/Forster AND Craig, is NOT paying off this time. Craig has now boxed himself into his stereotypic brand of Bond. He cannot return the franchise to normalcy. It MUST be done with a fresh, pleasant, and more traditional Bond actor. With so many screenings, this film should have kicked butt at the box office. I still cannot believe the amount of negative reviews worldwide. You Pro-Craig lot may spin the positives all you like but bottom line, I have NEVER in 46 years of this franchise, and I mean NEVER, seen and heard such negativity about any other Bond film like I am with TBM. Those Craig clones at MI6 are in for a rude awakening. Even Eon's payoffs to them(do not think that is not happening) will not stop the demise of Craig's time as Bond and I for one will be glad when it happens. He is a horrible choice for Bond and Eon has become a joke of a production company.

Who is spinning the positives? Me and EA are the only pro-Craiger's left on here, and we've both said we found it disappointing.

But you still are ignoring the hard facts that the amount of negative reviews out there, many of them still praise Craig as Bond, saying he is not at fault in the picture. The lack of fun, and the weak, messy storyline is the usual criticism. You can't now start to say `mmmm...reviews now count. They didn't last time with CR, because they were mainly positive, but now with QoS they do count, because they are mainly negative, but I still want to ignore the bits in the review where they say Craig is the best thing in it.'

[katied]

Hate to say it but... I agree with Sweeney


Recasting Bond because of what is, at the least, a misstep for EON,isn't going to happen.

[Kristatos]

Sorry,but I think Purvis and Wade need to be jettisoned(the"Vesper had a kid" plot,anyone?)

Was that them? I thought that was Haggis. Bond going after lost orphan children seems more his style, somehow.

[Mazer Rackham]

Sorry,but I think Purvis and Wade need to be jettisoned(the"Vesper had a kid" plot,anyone?)

Was that them? I thought that was Haggis. Bond going after lost orphan children seems more his style, somehow.

It was
Hollywood ruins Bond, Robin Hood's next

Questions, questions - and yet, unbelievable though it may seem, it could have been so much worse. Director Marc Forster has been in conversation with New York magazine, during which it emerges that the film wasn't co-written by an agony aunt, but by Paul Haggis, whom you may recall gave us Crash, the worst Best Picture ever.

"The idea," Forster says of an early draft, "was that Vesper in the last movie, maybe she had a kid, and there would be an orphan out there. It wasn't anything to insult the franchise. But they felt it wasn't particularly Bond - him looking for the kid. I think Paul thought he justleaves the kid, he doesn't deal with it. But [the producers] thought that would be really nasty, too, because Bond was an orphan himself. If he would find a kid, would he just leave it? They were so vehemently against it.

That was the only time I saw, really, 'No, we can't do that.' They said, 'Once he finds the kid, Bond can't just leave the kid. It's not right.'" Wait . . . Back up. Orphan kid? Orphan kid? I think we can agree this started being "not right" way before Bond has to decide whether to have the world's most winsome double-o sidekick, or leave Curly Sue in the care of the convent nuns or whatever. In fact, if you had to stick a pin in the moment it started being "not right", it would probably be around the point it turned into something that has "Vin Diesel vehicle" written all over it, which could be trailed with the line "He's stealing the Russian nuclear secrets. And she's stealing his heart!"

[Mazer Rackham]

Officially TBM dropped off 60.4% it's second USA weekend. No spinning , no sugar coating, no excuses Pro-Craig brigade. The experiment in originality by Eon/Haggis/Forster AND Craig, is NOT paying off this time. Craig has now boxed himself into his stereotypic brand of Bond. He cannot return the franchise to normalcy. It MUST be done with a fresh, pleasant, and more traditional Bond actor. With so many screenings, this film should have kicked butt at the box office. I still cannot believe the amount of negative reviews worldwide. You Pro-Craig lot may spin the positives all you like but bottom line, I have NEVER in 46 years of this franchise, and I mean NEVER, seen and heard such negativity about any other Bond film like I am with TBM. Those Craig clones at MI6 are in for a rude awakening. Even Eon's payoffs to them(do not think that is not happening) will not stop the demise of Craig's time as Bond and I for one will be glad when it happens. He is a horrible choice for Bond and Eon has become a joke of a production company.

Who is spinning the positives? Me and EA are the only pro-Craiger's left on here, and we've both said we found it disappointing.

But you still are ignoring the hard facts that the amount of negative reviews out there, many of them still praise Craig as Bond, saying he is not at fault in the picture. The lack of fun, and the weak, messy storyline is the usual criticism. You can't now start to say `mmmm...reviews now count. They didn't last time with CR, because they were mainly positive, but now with QoS they do count, because they are mainly negative, but I still want to ignore the bits in the review where they say Craig is the best thing in it.'

The crux of the problem even though some go out of their way to protect Craig is that his remedial version of Bond is the problem. I'm sure nobody knows it better than him.

Without CnB Craig would be done already. CnB was too successful too soon and the media had a knee jerk reaction to protect the 'pug ugly" actor. Without any fans criticizing the wonder Craig the media critics would have settled down and judged him on the merits of Bond rather than "he had a rough go and people picked on him cause he's ugly"
Would Moore have come out and said he wants to be Craig's fairy godmother without the fan insurrection? Doubtful.

The problem with criticism now and then is they ignored the things they don't like now. They probably thought they could let it slid becasue it go back to normal the next movie, which is what the majority of movie goers were expecting. With most movie goers undecided if Craig was Bond his next movie was very very important and the direction of Quark was a major misstep.

Craig now has to decide if the risk of another Quark and being labeled a dower, sour Bond and leaving a sour taste with the movie going public along with the possibility of the next one preforming poorly are worth it.

[James]

Eon must be really confused now with everyone slating QoS and telling them to stop being so miserable and make a James Bond film again. We've been saying that here for ages.

[katied]

Oops,sorry, my bad on accusing Purvis and Wade on the Vesper/kid plot. Still, it's a crappy idea

[Kristatos]

Oops,sorry, my bad on accusing Purvis and Wade on the Vesper/kid plot. Still, it's a crappy idea

It is a crappy idea, and to me, it's a reason why we should NOT NOT NOT get rid of Purvis and Wade. I think that any trace of Bond that still remains in this current incarnation is purely down to their influence. (edited to add: and maybe David Arnold's - never underestimate the power of music to influence a movie).