Trailer is released!!!!!

[Mazer Rackham]

IF you believe it is a sure thing you are in a fantasy.

The same could be said for you.

I have an opinion that is what it is and you have an opinion that is what it is. Difference is I can accept the possibility of whatever actually happens and you are betting the bank on an overly optimistic HOPE.

Last time there was a Indy film and a Bond film out what happened?

Bond wasn't as popular back then as he is now.

Really? Are you saying that an actor can make Bond unpopular?
Indy hasn't had an outing in almost 20 years. Too bad when he does get another movie it is a crappy story and poor direction. The Jones franchise remains at a high reaching a wide audience range after 20 years of neglect where as Bond remains somewhat limited in comparison.

"the nightmare Brozza years" now I know you're full of ...it. Er, in denial.

Denial? What, because I hated Brozza's films. Are you for real....

Not what I said. But if you want to admit it feel free.

Let me put it like this if you thought Brozza was bad then you must have thought Connery , Moore, Dalton, and Lazenby were complete jerkoffs. All of them did the same thing and all of them featured innovative cutting edge technology and themes and yes action. Brozza compared to the others except for a few of the early Connerys was more refined and controlled. Better finished production values.
I'm not going to be a complete ass an assume to know what you think, however if Brozza bothered you so then you couldn't have been a fan of much of the series.

I love Dr. No, FRWL, GF, OHMSS, LTK, CR. I hate most of Moore's films, and I despise all of Brozza's flicks, but I LOVE the Fleming books. Go figure.

So you accept that one who loves the movies and LOVES the books can think Craig is a bum. You see this is where bullying come in to play. A more authentic fandom. A purer faith. BS.
I noticed you tend to like the aberrations rather than the rule. Still only 6 out of 21 must have been existence.

What it seem to be coming down to is we got Bourne/Matt Helm fans polluting the Bond pool, condemning what worked and was right for over 50 years, praising the desecration of the standard, and attacking the tried and true fans of the books and the movies.

I'm a true fan, and I like it. So do the majority of die hard Bond fans on other Bond websites. Go figure....

Again purer faith bully BS. Falling in line with peer pressure is never a substitute for having an honest opinion.

[Mazer Rackham]

Attacking past actors are attempt to bully anyone who disagrees with Craig. Repeated over and over again. Here comes stocks, and here comes his Brosnan is s**t post and Craig is great talking point.
The strategy/intention behind the whole talking point/attack is the assertion that Brosanan ,Moore, Dalton, Lazenby, and even Connery are inferior or inappropriate to the role, series, what Fleming wrote and Craig is the one and only to realize the true Bond. And that I do take issue with.

I'm not going to assume to know what your thoughts are or what you enjoy.
But I do recognize the pattern of attack and tactics used originally conceived of with an eye towards marketing.

Who knows you may even enjoy Brozza and warm bowl of popcorn but feel you have to say he sucks here becasue you're at this site.
Who knows I might have even enjoyed parts of Craig performance in CR. Not too damned likely but possible none the less.

So I am in denial because I don't like Brozza? Is that right? In that case, are you in denial because you don't like Craig? It has to be the most stupidest statement I have ever read.....

No that is what you try to imply. And again not what I said but feel free to admit it if you want.

I always wanted Bond to be more like he is in the books, serious, gritty, bloodied after battle, no gadgets, no humour, etc. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen that being captured on film. FRWL, OHMSS, LTK and now CR. When Bourne came out, I immediately thought that was closer to the Bond novels than abysmal crap like DAD. I hated EON for what they did to Bond when Brozza came in, but now they are back on track. If they have been influenced by Bourne, I couldn't care less. At least I get a Bond that I envisaged when I read the novels.

That is your opinion of what the books were.
Abysmal crap like DAD followed the MR plot pretty closely and the MR plot was never very realistic.
Nice keyword "Gritty" it can mean what you want it to mean. What traditionally it means is a willingness to face danger and resolute and courageous. And what Bond hasn't sown that? The mutation of language is trying to associate this word as somehow meaning more realistic.

Fleming's books were considered escapist often describing impossible non existent people, places and technology.
He described his first Bond book, as "an oafish opus," [his books as] this "thriller thing", the "pillow book fantasies of an adolescent mind".
Fleming's imagined universe remains believable, though the purest fantasy. A lethal metal-rimmed bowler hat?

now they are back on track
Well they are on a track but not one they were ever on.
When Bourne came out, I thought that was nice but lacking the class and staying power of Bond. And no, nothing like the Bond novels. To me the novels have a gentler sensibility. They aren't about the action like it is for Bourne. For Bond the action is a motif.

And whether you think I'm saying this to be a smartass, trying to be cool now saying I love Craig, when secretly I love Brozza too, or whether you think I'm attacking you merely because you don't like Craig......I couldn't really give a toss. Your tone and contempt to attempt to listen to my point of view, and your stating in absolute fact that QOS will definitely fail at the BO, means you are not one of the decent members on here who I can have a serious debate with.

BTW, If QOS is a massive success, will you have the balls to show up here again and admit you were completely wrong...? I will, if QOS is a complete failure, but will you?

Part of this is already answered in another post.
I never said it will fail, that is your opinion. I do believed it will do less box office for various reasons. Then again if you want to speculate that the movie will cost more than CR, which cost around 270 million, and considering it all together it is a possibility that it could fail partly becasue of increasing prices, productions delays and other unforeseen events. But all that depends on what the Sony consider a failure. Maybe a failure is the inability to match CR BO and in that case you would be right, on those preconditions I do think Quark might be consider a failure.

[Mazer Rackham]

Yeah, I'll probably end up going to see Potter rather than Bond.

Same here.

Don't be silly guys................you wouldn't be Bond fans if you weren't prepared to see a Bond film.........
why post here if not.........surely you can stump up a few quid (dollars) for your film obsession.

AB is not amused

Prepared? Yes. Willing? No.

Just becasue a film has the Indiana Jones or Star Trek label doesn't mean a fan has to buy a ticket/book/dvd/game or they are not a true fan.
Then why does it matter now to Bond fans? It matters now becasue of a division amongst the fans. A division Craig caused and so far he has failed to close that gap.
Perfectly natural for someone not to desire to buy a ticket for something they are not pleased with.

[The Sweeney]

Again purer faith bully BS. Falling in line with peer pressure is never a substitute for having an honest opinion.

Are you telling me I'm falling in line with peer pressure now to like Craig...?

Liking all the actors isn't a likely happenstance. I never required that it should be.
If someone enjoyed Connery's Bond they likely enjoyed the others becasue the character was essentially the same.

I don't agree at all. Are you telling me the Bond character of FRWL and Dr. No is in essence the same character as Bond in MR, coming out of the canals in Venice on a driving gondola, spotted by a double-taking pigeon. Are you telling me the hard-ass character portrayed by Dalton in LTK, is the same smarmy smug, eyebrow raising character seen in the Moore films? Would you imagine Dalton in LTK suddenly going underwater and finding the time to quickly straighten his tie like Brozza does?

The character portrayed by Connery in the early films, the character portrayed by Lazenby, the character portrayed by Dalton in LTK and the character portrayed by Craig in CR are far closer in relation, than the smug, light-hearted comedy-fest character portrayed by Moore, or the muddled, confused character portrayed by Brozza, who one minute tries to emulate the serious edge of Dalton/Connery, and the next turns back into Moore again on the flip of an invisible Aston Martin.

[The Sweeney]

"the nightmare Brozza years" now I know you're full of ...it. Er, in denial.

Denial? What, because I hated Brozza's films. Are you for real....

Not what I said. But if you want to admit it feel free.

Would you care to elaborate on that then, if I misunderstood your comment? I thought you were trying to say I was in denial for slagging off Brozza. If not, please can you tell me what you were trying to say with that comment?

[Mazer Rackham]

Again purer faith bully BS. Falling in line with peer pressure is never a substitute for having an honest opinion.

Are you telling me I'm falling in line with peer pressure now to like Craig...?

Your words not mine.
Falling in line with peer pressure is never a substitute for having an honest opinion
After Craig as anointed by the Brocks there was an active effort was to silence decent. Part of the effort included/s ginning up a perceived peer pressure to help force conforming.
All I said is I prefer honest opinions to those form people trying to conform. In any and all things.
You connected the dots not me

Liking all the actors isn't a likely happenstance. I never required that it should be.
If someone enjoyed Connery's Bond they likely enjoyed the others becasue the character was essentially the same.

I don't agree at all. Are you telling me the Bond character of FRWL and Dr. No is in essence the same character as Bond in MR, coming out of the canals in Venice on a driving gondola, spotted by a double-taking pigeon. Are you telling me the hard-ass character portrayed by Dalton in LTK, is the same smarmy smug, eyebrow raising character seen in the Moore films? Would you imagine Dalton in LTK suddenly going underwater and finding the time to quickly straighten his tie like Brozza does?

Nitpicking form a few selected scenes. Still it doesn't detract from the over essential sameness of the character. From those examples I might agree in a few cases of the actors doing each others bit, but that goes toward the role being tweaked for the individual actor. And it's not the actors portrayal in question in those above references. You should look closer at the writers and the brocks.

BTW straighten his tie, I could see Connery doing that and I don't see it as beyond Dalton.

[The Sweeney]

Abysmal crap like DAD followed the MR plot pretty closely and the MR plot was never very realistic.

Pretty closely?? Are you referring to the novel Fleming wrote?

I'd probably let that comment slip if you had said DAD was loosely based on MR, but `pretty closely'. Hell, that is some statement. I would argue Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS and CR follow their novels `pretty closely.'

Please elaborate on this, and tell me where exactly the film DAD follows `pretty closely' the book that Fleming wrote (this should be interesting).

[The Sweeney]

Your words not mine.
Falling in line with peer pressure is never a substitute for having an honest opinion
After Craig as anointed by the Brocks there was an active effort was to silence decent. Part of the effort included/s ginning up a perceived peer pressure to help force conforming.
All I said is I prefer honest opinions to those form people trying to conform. In any and all things.
You connected the dots not me

I was merely connecting the dots you were implying. Let me put it this way. I did not conform to any peer pressure to like Craig. If I was as giddy and as clockwork as you are suggesting, then why have I hated every Bond film EON have done since 1989? Surely I should have been conforming to love Brozza too? Or do you not want to hear this? Does this ruin your misguided perception of what a Craig fan really is?

Nitpicking form a few selected scenes. Still it doesn't detract from the over essential sameness of the character. From those examples I might agree in a few cases of the actors doing each others bit, but that goes toward the role being tweaked for the individual actor. And it's not the actors portrayal in question in those above references. You should look closer at the writers and the brocks.

BTW straighten his tie, I could see Connery doing that and I don't see it as beyond Dalton.

Connery straightened his tie casually after a brawl. I could see all the other actors doing this too. And yes I agree with you on the point of the writers. It is them to ultimately blame, for the shoddy crap I endured through the 70's and 90's. I believe Moore and Brozza could have pulled off a decent hardass Fleming Bond (Moore nearly does in FYEO), but the writers hindered this.

[Mazer Rackham]

"the nightmare Brozza years" now I know you're full of ...it. Er, in denial.

Denial? What, because I hated Brozza's films. Are you for real....

Not what I said. But if you want to admit it feel free.

Would you care to elaborate on that then, if I misunderstood your comment? I thought you were trying to say I was in denial for slagging off Brozza. If not, please can you tell me what you were trying to say with that comment?

You can like or dislike anybody you want.
I was speaking in general about fans who like the series 20 movies and fans who push CR. About the Brozza years my point is they weren't very different from the preceding 40.
You can hate Brozza if you want. Just like people hate Dalton. I don't think any one fan loves every entry of the Bond series equally, for the biggest number of them/us it is a take it or leave it, case by case, movie by movie, actor by actor basis.
I also think a lot of us love the entirety as a whole, warts and all.

[The Sweeney]

I was speaking in general about fans who like the series 20 movies and fans who push CR. About the Brozza years my point is they weren't very different form the preceding 40.
You can hate Brozza if you want. Just like people hate Dalton. I don't think any one fan loves every entry of the Bond series equally, for the biggest number of them/us it is a take it or leave it, case by case, movie by movie, actor by actor basis.
I also think a lot of us love the entirety as a whole, warts and all.

Ok, fair enough.
And the comment I highlighted above sums up what you guys are going through now. You are not in love with the direction of the franchise as it is now, the same way I wasn't in love with the franchise after Dalton left. I can accept that.

[Mazer Rackham]

Abysmal crap like DAD followed the MR plot pretty closely and the MR plot was never very realistic.

Pretty closely?? Are you referring to the novel Fleming wrote?

I'd probably let that comment slip if you had said DAD was loosely based on MR, but `pretty closely'. Hell, that is some statement. I would argue Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS and CR follow their novels `pretty closely.'

Please elaborate on this, and tell me where exactly the film DAD follows `pretty closely' the book that Fleming wrote (this should be interesting).

Roll out the plot side by side. Differences? yes. Some adjustments for the day and enemy list. Probably why the genetics Sci-fi was used instead of simple everyday plastic surgery. I would argue CR deviates greatly from the novel. But if you accept the changes in CR's plot then you should be willing to accept the changes in DADs .
If you wan to bog things down in nuanced debate you can go climb a tree or call John Kerry. or just PM

[Mazer Rackham]

I was speaking in general about fans who like the series 20 movies and fans who push CR. About the Brozza years my point is they weren't very different form the preceding 40.
You can hate Brozza if you want. Just like people hate Dalton. I don't think any one fan loves every entry of the Bond series equally, for the biggest number of them/us it is a take it or leave it, case by case, movie by movie, actor by actor basis.
I also think a lot of us love the entirety as a whole, warts and all.

Ok, fair enough.
And the comment I highlighted above sums up what you guys are going through now. You are not in love with the direction of the franchise as it is now, the same way I wasn't in love with the franchise after Dalton left. I can accept that.

What? We Agree on something!! Who saw that one coming?
Fair enough Mr Sweeney

[The Sweeney]

Abysmal crap like DAD followed the MR plot pretty closely and the MR plot was never very realistic.

Pretty closely?? Are you referring to the novel Fleming wrote?

I'd probably let that comment slip if you had said DAD was loosely based on MR, but `pretty closely'. Hell, that is some statement. I would argue Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS and CR follow their novels `pretty closely.'

Please elaborate on this, and tell me where exactly the film DAD follows `pretty closely' the book that Fleming wrote (this should be interesting).

Roll out the plot side by side. Differences? yes. Some adjustments for the day and enemy list. Probably why the genetics Sci-fi was used instead of simple everyday plastic surgery. I would argue CR deviates greatly from the novel. But if you accept the changes in CR's plot then you should be willing to accept the changes in DADs .
If you wan to bog things down in nuanced debate you can go climb a tree or call John Kerry. or just PM

I would argue that the latter half of CR is closely based on the novel, whereas DAD is loosely based on MR. If you don't agree with this, there is nothing more to be said.

[The Sweeney]

I was speaking in general about fans who like the series 20 movies and fans who push CR. About the Brozza years my point is they weren't very different form the preceding 40.
You can hate Brozza if you want. Just like people hate Dalton. I don't think any one fan loves every entry of the Bond series equally, for the biggest number of them/us it is a take it or leave it, case by case, movie by movie, actor by actor basis.
I also think a lot of us love the entirety as a whole, warts and all.

Ok, fair enough.
And the comment I highlighted above sums up what you guys are going through now. You are not in love with the direction of the franchise as it is now, the same way I wasn't in love with the franchise after Dalton left. I can accept that.

What? We Agree on something!! Who saw that one coming?
Fair enough Mr Sweeney

See. Anti-Craig fans and pro-Craig fans can get on. We are all Bond fans ultimately.

[Mazer Rackham]

I would argue that the latter half of CR is closely based on the novel, whereas DAD is loosely based on MR. If you don't agree with this, there is nothing more to be said.

Probably not.
DAD followed MR more faithful than the MR movie. The Blades club, and at one point the character of Miranda Frost from the film was to have been named Gala Brand. The villain, Gustav Graves, is also based on Fleming's original concept of Hugo Drax.

The later half of CR was closer to the novel but there are big discrepancies. We could get real nitpicky and go scene by screen and find differences in each from the Novel. Or we could say DAD and CR were based on Fleming's novels and agree there.

[Jermaine76]

The later half of CR was closer to the novel but there are big discrepancies. We could get real nitpicky and go scene by screen and find differences in each from the Novel. Or we could say DAD and CR were based on Fleming's novels and agree there.

I can start it off by saying that d**n torture scene in the film was nothing like it was in the chapter "My Dear Boy" in the CR novel. What irked me about Craig/director/writers is that they wanted to illustrate a grittier, no nonsense Bond; however, when it came down to being serious...then he wants to be Mr. Funnyman and crack jokes about his nuts. I probably was the only person in the theater who didn't laugh....I yelled BS instead.

[Jermaine76]

I guess it is true what they say about great minds

Yeah...I wish on a DVD...the Broccolis could one day explain to us fans in full detail as to why they wanted to have this reboot. James Bond walking towards the screen with a big ass machine gun doesn't sit well with me. Who does he think he is...the Big Boss or something?

[Jermaine76]

You can hate Brozza if you want. Just like people hate Dalton. I don't think any one fan loves every entry of the Bond series equally, for the biggest number of them/us it is a take it or leave it, case by case, movie by movie, actor by actor basis.
I also think a lot of us love the entirety as a whole, warts and all.

I just wish that people would give Brosnan credit for rejuvenating Bond when the series was essentially dead after 1989. It seems like now, pro-Craig guys are so anti-Brosnan. Where was this hate between 1995-2002? I don't remember seeing a PierceBrosnanisnotbond.com between those years. People were highly upset over Die Another Day, but praised GoldenEye as high as Goldfinger. Now...it seems like Brosnan didn't do anything....according to pro-Craig people. For people to say that Bond is more popular now because of Craig is garbage. Brosnan made Bond popular again. His movies made more money than the previous one. And that was WITHOUT the hype machine that Sony did with Craig. If Brosnan had a 5th film and with Sony's hype....it would have been priceless. Craig has benefited from Brosnan like current NBA players now have benefited from players before them like Bird, Magic and Jordan. If you're a basketball fan, then you'll understand the analogy.

[The Sweeney]

The later half of CR was closer to the novel but there are big discrepancies. We could get real nitpicky and go scene by screen and find differences in each from the Novel. Or we could say DAD and CR were based on Fleming's novels and agree there.

I can start it off by saying that d**n torture scene in the film was nothing like it was in the chapter "My Dear Boy" in the CR novel. What irked me about Craig/director/writers is that they wanted to illustrate a grittier, no nonsense Bond; however, when it came down to being serious...then he wants to be Mr. Funnyman and crack jokes about his nuts. I probably was the only person in the theater who didn't laugh....I yelled BS instead.

I guess had they stuck that closely to the novel, the film would have been a cert. 18. I personally would not have had a problem with that, but I guess others would. I'm all for violence in Bond films. It is a reflection of what Fleming wrote.

However, I'm pleased the torture scene made it at all into the film, and I understood why they had to introduce the comedy moments - mainly because kids still see these films too. And it wasn't exactly a silly comedy moment for me. It was a guy laughing in desperation at what is happening to him.

[The Sweeney]

You can hate Brozza if you want. Just like people hate Dalton. I don't think any one fan loves every entry of the Bond series equally, for the biggest number of them/us it is a take it or leave it, case by case, movie by movie, actor by actor basis.
I also think a lot of us love the entirety as a whole, warts and all.

I just wish that people would give Brosnan credit for rejuvenating Bond when the series was essentially dead after 1989. It seems like now, pro-Craig guys are so anti-Brosnan. Where was this hate between 1995-2002? I don't remember seeing a PierceBrosnanisnotbond.com between those years. People were highly upset over Die Another Day, but praised GoldenEye as high as Goldfinger. Now...it seems like Brosnan didn't do anything....according to pro-Craig people. For people to say that Bond is more popular now because of Craig is garbage. Brosnan made Bond popular again. His movies made more money than the previous one. And that was WITHOUT the hype machine that Sony did with Craig. If Brosnan had a 5th film and with Sony's hype....it would have been priceless. Craig has benefited from Brosnan like current NBA players now have benefited from players before them like Bird, Magic and Jordan. If you're a basketball fan, then you'll understand the analogy.

I cannot speak for others here, but I can tell you I was extremely disappointed with every Brosnan film released. They seemed to get worse as they went on, not better (ultimately ending with the abortion called DAD). Now I never fully blame Brosnan for this. It was EON making the films, not him. So had there been a `Brosnanisnotbond.com' I probably wouldn't have signed up to it. I slag old Brozza off because he is the actor associated with all the crap films, but I don't personally have anything against him (although his acting irritated me in certain scenes, trying too hard to be cool).

Had there been an `EONiskillingthefranchise.com' website, I would have immediately signed up to that.