Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan
Post Reply
User avatar
acid
Commander
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Dr No, From Russia with Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, A View To a Kill, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye
Location: Baja? I haven't got anything in Baja!

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by acid »

Thank you very much DB. I just finished your excellent rant. Your thoroughness and attention to detail are exceptional. You've put a lot of work into it and it's appreciated. Have another martini. :martini: :)

As for this abomination of a flick though, wow, I'm almost speechless. The overwhelming vibe I'm getting, much more so even than Craig's previous outings, is how incredibly dreary and depressing it feels. I don't know but the way they've treated these beloved and long enduring characters feels almost spiteful (and we can probably drop that "almost" :jack: ). They haven't just very deliberately killed them all off, they've traveled even further down their side road of turning all the things we love about the classic Bond's character on their head. He's angry, wistful, tired, old, resentful and passive aggressive, and apparently a lot of the time just plain passive. I mean, if they don't like Bond why not give him to someone who does?

I had to check several times your screenshot and description DB when you explained how they left no ambiguity around their Craig Bond's demise, because I just couldn't believe it! They've got their shock talking point already killing him off. Writing themselves into a dead end like that seems mad. I can only think it might've been Craig trying to make sure there was no way he could be tempted back again. Even that makes no sense though, because if "JAMES BOND WILL RETURN" then they obviously can work around that plot point, be it through killing the continuity with a full reboot (the most likely), prequels, or some ridiculous hand-waving about how the nanobots had a side effect of regenerating his flesh.

This trend in the movies of killing off beloved characters in lazy ways is nowhere near as clever as they think it is (See also Captain Kirk and Terminator's John Connor for a couple of notable examples). It doesn't make it deeper, more prestigious or even really more gritty. It's not gritty or realisitc because we all know they're going to be resurrected in some form later and you and I DB are by now both well-versed in how the continuity-busting reboots shatter that fourth wall and destroy any suspension of disbelief.

If they're trying to make a high brow, award worthy film, I just don't get how they made his death so apparently illogical. He doesn't sacrifice himself to achieve any meaningful gain, just this vague notion of trying to protect his family from the virus (Hello, social distancing, as you rightly pointed out), and given how pointless it seems to be, it doesn't sound like Madeline or the others do a very good job of trying to talk him out of it?

The right way to show a meaningful sacrifice is something like what they did with May Day. I must admit even that was a little contrived but at least Bond pleads with her to jump and she insists that there's a purpose, to hold the brake from sticking on the mine cart and save the day from Zorin's explosives. How hard would it have been to write in something more like that (I said like that, not a rip off by the way)? It's almost as if they just don't care, or as if they're not writing this for the fans anymore. :picard:

I'm sharing Veronica's morbid curiosity about this film but I doubt I can bring myself to slog all the way through, so thanks for saving me the trouble, DB. I'll probably check out some of the key scenes. I'm curious for example whether that off road car chase is quite as absurdly gravity defying as it looks from that screenshot. And that ending, how can it really be that bad?

Let's see how much worse it can get with the next one. Maybe they'll do what Trek did and go with an actor so young they've barely started shaving, then crank up the melodrama even higher and add lots of teenage angst.
"Wonderful for poison pen letters..."
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Kristatos »

It's obviously going to be a reboot. I think if they tried the nanobots rebuilding him, or some old-school Marvel Comics "he wasn't really dead, just wounded" explanation, they'd be laughed out of cinemas. I just hope it isn't another origin story. I'd hate for Bond to become like Spiderman, getting his origin retold every time there's a new actor in the role.
"Bond films aren't dramas, they're pantos" - David Mitchell
User avatar
dirtybenny
Agent
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:27 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love and all the Connery films
Favorite Movies: Dirty Harry, Bullitt, The Sting, LA Confidential, The Maltese Falcon, and The Big Sleep
Location: Straight Outta Uranus

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

acid wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:58 pm Thank you very much DB. I just finished your excellent rant. Your thoroughness and attention to detail are exceptional. You've put a lot of work into it and it's appreciated. Have another martini. :martini: :) ...
Thank you Acid! While I certainly don't write these things for personal validation, it's always good to hear they are being enjoyed, otherwise what's the point, I'd just be screaming at clouds (some would say that's what I do any way). :cheers:

To your excellent points; as Kris said they'll recast, though I'm 99.9% sure of it and I think Kris will agree, I won't believe it till I see it. After all this is the woman who got on her knees twice before to beg this goofball back. The two scenes you mention (forest car chase, end) are widely available online and yes that chase is as ridiculous as it seems, if anything I toned it down a tad in my review.

I like your analogy with Mayday, she does do a far better and more plausible act of self sacrifice and redemption in those 30 seconds of screen time than the Craig-Bond does in 3 hours! It'd be one thing if the virus he contracted was some sort of "doom's day" strain that would kill everyone but the initial person infected or some such BS, but no not even that, it's just because he can't "Netflix and chill" with his "baby momma" that he gets a terminal case of the sads.

To parrot Kris some more I also don't want another origin story every time they recast or ever really. That's one of the myriad problems allowed to creep in during Craig's tenure, if we start getting self contained story arcs for each actor the franchise is going to become real stale really fast.

I look forward to continued discussion, don't be a stranger!
The Rouge Warrior, On Hermaphrodite's Secret Service Image
User avatar
acid
Commander
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Dr No, From Russia with Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, A View To a Kill, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye
Location: Baja? I haven't got anything in Baja!

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by acid »

Kristatos wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:33 pm It's obviously going to be a reboot. I think if they tried the nanobots rebuilding him, or some old-school Marvel Comics "he wasn't really dead, just wounded" explanation, they'd be laughed out of cinemas. I just hope it isn't another origin story. I'd hate for Bond to become like Spiderman, getting his origin retold every time there's a new actor in the role.
dirtybenny wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:22 pm To parrot Kris some more I also don't want another origin story every time they recast or ever really. That's one of the myriad problems allowed to creep in during Craig's tenure, if we start getting self contained story arcs for each actor the franchise is going to become real stale really fast.
I think I share the view of most of us, that I don't like the idea of any hard reboots in the Bond franchise, but at the same time don't mind in the slightest if they carry on as if the Craig arc never really happened. What I don't want is a precedent being set where they start hard rebooting over and over again, but I fear that's not even a losing battle - it's been the standard operating procedure in the film industry for years now. Kris your fears of repeated origin stories (and self contained arcs) sort of go hand in hand with that. If they go for younger actors they'll probably be more tempted to do more origin stories as well.

I really have very little hope that this franchise will start producing content that I love to watch in the foreseeable future, but hey, never say never, I'll wait and see.
"Wonderful for poison pen letters..."
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by bjmdds »

Bezos did not spend billions for nonsense from Broccoli. They should start out Aidan Turner's Bond as they did with Dalton's Bond. Put him on a mission and move it FORWARD.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Image
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Kristatos »

bjmdds wrote:Bezos did not spend billions for nonsense from Broccoli. They should start out Aidan Turner's Bond as they did with Dalton's Bond. Put him on a mission and move it FORWARD.
The Living Daylights was supposed to be a reboot leading directly into the events of Dr No, but Cubby vetoed the idea. Whilst I think that was the right decision at the time, I don't think that would be a bad way to go forward for the next one. As you say, just give us Bond on a mission, then end it with M telling him that an agent has disappeared in Jamaica.

You still don't seem to understand that Bezos has bought MGM, not EON. MGM are part-owners of the Bond movie rights, but creative control ultimately still rests with Babbzy. Even more so now that MGW has, I believe, officially retired. It's not like the Washington Post, where he can just buy it and order them to run 27 articles a day about how great Amazon is.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

"Bond films aren't dramas, they're pantos" - David Mitchell
Veronica
Agent
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:08 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia With Love,GoldenEye,The Spy Who Loved Me,Goldfinger,Dr.No
Favorite Movies: After the Sunset,The Devil Wears Prada,The Thomas Crown Affair,To Catch a Thief,Midnight in Paris,North by Northwest, Purple Noon, La piscine.

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

dirtybenny wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:22 pm After all this is the woman who got on her knees twice before to beg this goofball back.
Now there's an image I didn't really need in my head. :lol:
Irony-Man2
New Recruit
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:02 pm

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Irony-Man2 »

They just have to get away from requiring there to be a continuity or story arc over multiple films. Make a Bond film as if it's going to be the one and only or as if it's in the middle of an established run. We all know who M and Q and Moneypenny are, just have Bond do a mission and for God's sake DON'T MAKE IT PERSONAL THIS TIME!
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Kristatos »

Irony-Man2 wrote:They just have to get away from requiring there to be a continuity or story arc over multiple films. Make a Bond film as if it's going to be the one and only or as if it's in the middle of an established run. We all know who M and Q and Moneypenny are, just have Bond do a mission and for God's sake DON'T MAKE IT PERSONAL THIS TIME!
Agreed on all counts.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

"Bond films aren't dramas, they're pantos" - David Mitchell
User avatar
acid
Commander
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Dr No, From Russia with Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, A View To a Kill, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye
Location: Baja? I haven't got anything in Baja!

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by acid »

If a Bond actor had told Cubby he would only come back for another film on the condition they kill Bond off, I'm pretty sure Cubby would've told them to get lost!
"Wonderful for poison pen letters..."
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Kristatos »

acid wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:08 pm If a Bond actor had told Cubby he would only come back for another film on the condition they kill Bond off, I'm pretty sure Cubby would've told them to get lost!
Oh, I'm sure. But the fact that Craig made this a condition for doing a fifth film makes it all but certain that there won't be a sixth. Not because Babbzy doesn't want it, but because Craig doesn't.
"Bond films aren't dramas, they're pantos" - David Mitchell
User avatar
acid
Commander
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Dr No, From Russia with Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, A View To a Kill, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye
Location: Baja? I haven't got anything in Baja!

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by acid »

Kristatos wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:14 pm Oh, I'm sure. But the fact that Craig made this a condition for doing a fifth film makes it all but certain that there won't be a sixth. Not because Babbzy doesn't want it, but because Craig doesn't.
Yeah he'd probably only change his mind if he needed more money for some reason. You'd think that latest pile of cash ought to last him long enough for EON to find another actor.

You know, I've reflected on this killing off Bond thing and if it had been one of our favorite Bond actors all those decades ago, I would definitely feel more strongly about it. As it is, it's just another bafflingly awful plot point. Now the initial surprise is over, I don't think I'm much more fussed about it than I was about the Bro-feld revelation or Craig's character retiring and becoming a father. I just don't care about these stories at the moment. They're pretty meaningless.

If they get the stories back on track and then go and kill him again though then I think the series will lose a lot of credibility, at least you'd think so, right?
"Wonderful for poison pen letters..."
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Kristatos »


acid wrote:
If they get the stories back on track and then go and kill him again though then I think the series will lose a lot of credibility, at least you'd think so, right?
"Oh my god, they've killed Bond!"

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

"Bond films aren't dramas, they're pantos" - David Mitchell
User avatar
acid
Commander
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Dr No, From Russia with Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Octopussy, For Your Eyes Only, A View To a Kill, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye
Location: Baja? I haven't got anything in Baja!

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by acid »

Kristatos wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:56 pm "Oh my god, they've killed Bond!"
:lol: "You bas***ds!" I'm also reminded of the Simpsons parodies of Bond with Homer causing his demise. Funny how the more they try to add depth and gravitas, the closer it seems to come to self-parody.
"Wonderful for poison pen letters..."
User avatar
dirtybenny
Agent
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:27 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love and all the Connery films
Favorite Movies: Dirty Harry, Bullitt, The Sting, LA Confidential, The Maltese Falcon, and The Big Sleep
Location: Straight Outta Uranus

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

acid wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:52 pm
Kristatos wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:14 pm Oh, I'm sure. But the fact that Craig made this a condition for doing a fifth film makes it all but certain that there won't be a sixth. Not because Babbzy doesn't want it, but because Craig doesn't.
Yeah he'd probably only change his mind if he needed more money for some reason. You'd think that latest pile of cash ought to last him long enough for EON to find another actor.

You know, I've reflected on this killing off Bond thing and if it had been one of our favorite Bond actors all those decades ago, I would definitely feel more strongly about it. As it is, it's just another bafflingly awful plot point. Now the initial surprise is over, I don't think I'm much more fussed about it than I was about the Bro-feld revelation or Craig's character retiring and becoming a father. I just don't care about these stories at the moment. They're pretty meaningless.

If they get the stories back on track and then go and kill him again though then I think the series will lose a lot of credibility, at least you'd think so, right?
Yup, just another cheap plot device in a long line of them, like you I'd have been more disturbed by it had they not killed Bond off decades ago.
The Rouge Warrior, On Hermaphrodite's Secret Service Image
User avatar
dirtybenny
Agent
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:27 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love and all the Connery films
Favorite Movies: Dirty Harry, Bullitt, The Sting, LA Confidential, The Maltese Falcon, and The Big Sleep
Location: Straight Outta Uranus

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Irony-Man2 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:32 am They just have to get away from requiring there to be a continuity or story arc over multiple films. Make a Bond film as if it's going to be the one and only or as if it's in the middle of an established run. We all know who M and Q and Moneypenny are, just have Bond do a mission and for God's sake DON'T MAKE IT PERSONAL THIS TIME!
You don't understand Irony, it was personal before and the 4 times before that, but THIS time it REALLY is personal!
The Rouge Warrior, On Hermaphrodite's Secret Service Image
User avatar
dirtybenny
Agent
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:27 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love and all the Connery films
Favorite Movies: Dirty Harry, Bullitt, The Sting, LA Confidential, The Maltese Falcon, and The Big Sleep
Location: Straight Outta Uranus

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

New rant concerning the extracurricular activities of NTTD director Cary Joji Funkenstein:

http://danielcraigisnotbond.com/index/b ... des-again/
The Rouge Warrior, On Hermaphrodite's Secret Service Image
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Kristatos »

I wonder if that "male feminist" stuff wasn't for Babbzy's consumption, in order to advance his career? I've met a couple of malignant narcissists in my time, so I know his type. They're very skilled at telling people what they want to hear, if it suits their goals.
"Bond films aren't dramas, they're pantos" - David Mitchell
User avatar
dirtybenny
Agent
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:27 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love and all the Connery films
Favorite Movies: Dirty Harry, Bullitt, The Sting, LA Confidential, The Maltese Falcon, and The Big Sleep
Location: Straight Outta Uranus

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Kristatos wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:16 pm I wonder if that "male feminist" stuff wasn't for Babbzy's consumption, in order to advance his career? I've met a couple of malignant narcissists in my time, so I know his type. They're very skilled at telling people what they want to hear, if it suits their goals.
Definitely on the right track Kris and I think that's part of it, but I think he's also doing it for more than just Babz. He is a predator in the world of #metoo and what do predators do? Camouflage. What better camouflage than an ally, that's why I don't trust "male feminists," not that a man can't believe in female causes, but sometimes thou protest too much. Just look at how he got caught out, slams Bond in September, actress comes forward because he did exactly the same thing to her he disparaged in the film. This time he makes a virtue signal concerning abortion and these other women finally had enough of his posturing. All and all just another dirt bag.
The Rouge Warrior, On Hermaphrodite's Secret Service Image
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12038
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Kristatos »

But would anybody really be naive enough to believe someone whose pickup line was "I'm a male feminist, would you like to come up and see my etchings?"
"Bond films aren't dramas, they're pantos" - David Mitchell
Post Reply