Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by The Saint 007 »

Omega wrote:It's not that hard people! Stop trying to make the bond equivalent of Shakespeare in love.
Although the classic Bond films may not seem like rocket science, they are much more difficult to make than these new soap opera Bond films. After GoldenEye, the filmmakers just couldn't get their act together, and things began to slowly go downhill. I think they're so focused on trying to make Bond fit in the modern world, that they lost sight of all the qualities that make the series so special. Barbara seems to enjoy making films about exploring Bond's character more than making a traditional Bond film, plus she gets a lot more praise for it.

Like I mentioned earlier, people complain about the 1980s Moore Bonds for not addressing his age, but I think that's what makes them so grand. Nowadays, they couldn't make a veteran Bond go on an adventurous mission without diving into the whole "I'm getting too old for this s#!t" depressing drama, something I'm sure will further be explored if Craig decides to stay in the role longer.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

The Saint 007 wrote:
Omega wrote:It's not that hard people! Stop trying to make the bond equivalent of Shakespeare in love.
Although the classic Bond films may not seem like rocket science, they are much more difficult to make than these new soap opera Bond films. After GoldenEye, the filmmakers just couldn't get their act together, and things began to slowly go downhill. I think they're so focused on trying to make Bond fit in the modern world, that they lost sight of all the qualities that make the series so special. Barbara seems to enjoy making films about exploring Bond's character more than making a traditional Bond film, plus she gets a lot more praise for it.

Like I mentioned earlier, people complain about the 1980s Moore Bonds for not addressing his age, but I think that's what makes them so grand. Nowadays, they couldn't make a veteran Bond go on an adventurous mission without diving into the whole "I'm getting too old for this s#!t" depressing drama, something I'm sure will further be explored if Craig decides to stay in the role longer.

You are totally right. Although I don't get the whole "Bond wouldn't fit in today's world" thing. You really really think that a secret agent(that draws you automatically) who is charming,sophisticated dashing and deadly wouldn't fit? Charisma Brocolli always worked! Before Christ it worked when Cleopatra was here it worked(for her especially) when Casanova was here it worked(duh!)... now Bond is like every other spy/action hero we can see from million Hollywood movies. It's not Bond anymore..that's all I can say.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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Omega wrote: It's not that hard people! Stop trying to make the bond equivalent of Shakespeare in love.
I wish. SiL was a lot more fun than any Craig "Bond" film.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

dirtybenny wrote:Thanks Veronica, it's nice to be appreciated! :cheers:

It's funny you brought up that rant as it mentions Austin Powers and his effect on the Bond franchise.his Particularly how they had to "de-bondify" Bond because of it.

I posit to you that SF and now from what we know of SP are in fact "gritty, realistic" remakes of the last two Powers films.

Think about it in SF Bond loses his "Mojo" after falling off the train trestle and magically regains it halfway through the film like Austin 2, and now in SP Blofeld turns out to be his big bad foster brother! Just like Dr. Evil in #3!!!!!!
I like the bit about Skyfall(yeah,it's pretty fantastic how people think this a a good film) the best! :up:
Someone also wrote how "the only mysterious thing about Bond now is how the hell it got such a high rating".. I can't help but ask myself the same question.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by commander0077again »

Good evening, DirtyBenny ... long time no Si ... have to laff at the Crag's interview where 'the Fleming energy ... is caught'..... caught how and if so, dropped on the field and through the glove. Fleming's Bond had a sense of humor, this is evident from his very second book and onwards culminating in OHMSS and YOLT with a rather likable Bond. OHMSS, of course, featured an abundance of exclamation points!!! We see the first inklings in Bond's draft of his resignation: "For you information ... steady on, old chap!" Bond's 'Balls, and balls again!' Griffin Or and Sable Basilisk save the day, too, "Um um? Bond of Bond Street?" Anyway, part of the Fleming energy was his humor. It's only in first and final books where Bond is a cheerless, and in TMWTGG he at least has the excuse of being brainwashed. What's Crag's excuse? :cake:
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Well Commander,

Craig's excuse is;

Is instead of BOND being hypnotized in his version it is the AUDIENCE who are under an evil spell!
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Rant 25

I Pity the Fool

It’s been awhile since my last rant, and the reason for this is I’ve been a little dejected about Bond since the Sony Hacks.

The hacks have given us a bit of a peek behind the curtain at EON as it were, and what I saw really disturbed me. Believe me I never once was under any delusion that any of our ranting and feet stomping was going to have any effect on the policies at the studio, but I felt things couldn’t sink any lower until I saw what they have in store for us in SP. So I’ve been in a bit of a funk as of late when it comes to Bond and what’s in store for the series.

Now who is the “fool” I referring to in the title? A few months back I spotted a couple of articles that were penned for the MI6-HQ web site which I have posted links to below. However for those of you who don’t wish to read a load of blind optimism I’ll paraphrase.

Speculative 1 2 3 4 5

The author begins by stating they have not read the leaks nor do the plan to do so, fair enough, but he then commences to write five articles of speculation as to what will constitute the plot of SP based on the official EON press releases. Quite frankly the author makes a bit of a fool of himself spouting on about what “may be” in the film when it’s been spilled all over the internet for all to see.

OK so why do I pity him? Well I used to be that guy. Not this particular guy of course, but like him. When Craig was announced as Bond in 2005 I felt it was a poor choice of casting, but it wasn’t the end of the world, because I figured they would continue on “business as usual” then I saw CR, and was a bit disappointed, but I bought the EON line that this was “how Bond begins” a “one off” an “experiment” a sort of LTK for the 21st century. So I let it go and set my sights on the next film, of course what I got was QOS. OK I told myself they felt there was more story to tell, not that I saw any of it on the screen, but they must have felt so. OK so once again I looked to the future “This time” I told myself “This time it’s going to be right, no origin story, no brooding, no “grit”, just back down to business, off on a mission, to a far off exotic locale, to battle an OTT egomaniac.” So I buried my head in the sand to avoid spoilers… and I got SF.

At that point I flung my hands in the air and gave up, the silver lining is about that time I found this forum and realized I was not alone. So back to our friend the author, I pity him because when he sees SP, and learns Blofeld is Bond’s long lost foster brother, he will come to the sad realization as I did three years ago, that Bond is no more or at least on a long, long hiatus, and all his excitement will come crashing down around him as it did for me. Or worse still, he won’t realize it, and continue to fool himself that these are in fact “Bond films” and this is some sort of step forward for the franchise and continue to live in denial swallowing the garbage EON continues to feed us.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

It's quite sad that this someone is speculating all kind of stuff when everything is on internet. Everything... Christopher Waltz himself confirmed he is not playing Blofeld-but a character named Franz Oberhauser-apparently Bond's long lost brother. *yawn* seriously? And why is that someone excited for this movie? Everything can be found on line already and no matter how hard Broccoli will certainly try there is no way that SP will do SF numbers. I think that numbers more in line of QOS woud be more realistic. Plus Bond himself isn't exciting anymore. There's no style or coolnes or any charisma what so ever. I actually find it laughable how Mendes made Craig do this classical Bond move in SF(when he enters the train and fixes his suit) but then Bond spends months playing wounded and angry boy on some island.Depressed. *yawn* is this crap ever going to end?
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by The Saint 007 »

Quantum Of Solace pretty much sealed the deal for me on what the Craig era was all about. An adventurous mission has become second fiddle in favour of soap opera shenanigans. Bond now spends more time sulking than he does working. I read somewhere that in Spectre, M once again asks Bond if he's ready to go back to work. It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes the new catch phrase for Fiennes' M, similar to Dench's M constantly asking Bond if she can trust him.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

The Saint 007 wrote:Quantum Of Solace pretty much sealed the deal for me on what the Craig era was all about. An adventurous mission has become second fiddle in favour of soap opera shenanigans. Bond now spends more time sulking than he does working. I read somewhere that in Spectre, M once again asks Bond if he's ready to go back to work. It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes the new catch phrase for Fiennes' M, similar to Dench's M constantly asking Bond if she can trust him.
Apparently,Bond is forced to retire from MI6 because he destroys half of Ciudad de Mexico...where is Bond who was called by M "the best man we have" in both TSWLM and TWINE?Where is M who actually was a boss to Bond instead of mother? QOS feels more like a Steven Seagal movie than anything else,Skyfall is a mix of pretty much everything-from Bourne,Batman,Mission Impossible to Home Alone to elements of TWINE and GE.It's insulting that this was called the best Bond movie.CR is just boring and every information is just passed in a conversation. Plus the soap-opera-esque dialogue was painful to watch and listen. Like one friend of mine said-"This maybe isn't the worst Bond movie I ever watched but it certainly isn't the best,never mind that the critics now decided to praise this new Bond who drives gondola in Venice and after 2 days of knowing this chick quits his job." I often see how Vesper is often found near or at the very top of "best Bond girls" lists. I am of opinion that that's more of the fact what she represents-a woman that Bond fell hard for than what is she really like because IMO Eva Green's characterisation is just bland and usually that's not the problem with the classic Bond girls but Vesper Lynd was supposed to be a woman that captured Bond and yet Vesper's character was in the terms of the script very poorly written.
Broccoli is going about this crap of making Bond personal and yet he was that before the shitty reboot. In GE,TND,TWINE and hell even DAD(even though nothing came out of that and then tere's Christmas Jones in TWINE) there was also something personal and it was handled much better I think. It still felt like a Bond movie which can not be said for the last three.I am all good with adding more dimensions to Bond but that doesn't mean that you have to make him this troubled,brooding completely uncharismatic guy
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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The Saint 007 wrote:Quantum Of Solace pretty much sealed the deal for me on what the Craig era was all about. An adventurous mission has become second fiddle in favour of soap opera shenanigans. Bond now spends more time sulking than he does working. I read somewhere that in Spectre, M once again asks Bond if he's ready to go back to work. It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes the new catch phrase for Fiennes' M, similar to Dench's M constantly asking Bond if she can trust him.

You know Saint QOS should have done it for me too. But I bought the company line, I believed it when they said they would "Bring back the old irony" and Q and Moneypenny would return. I also couldn't see how or why they would want to continue telling an origin story over and over, I guess I gave them too much credit. Of course once I saw the mess that was SF, where they couldn't even come up with their own origin story! I mean come on a Wayne Manor-esq ancestral manse, a Alfred like care taker, even going so far to pose Bond on a rooftop, legs akimbo, overcoat flapping in the breeze as if at any moment he would use it to swoop down to the street below in order to dispatch two terrorists! But I'm not telling you anything you don't already know!

I think I was more disappointed in myself, when I realized I had a tiny ember of hope that the movie after SF would be somewhat of a return to some semblance of the old Bond. It was some sort of blind, insane, unjustified optimism. I don't know why, I guess it was the ending with the padded door, M behind the desk, and Moneypenny settling in behind her's. Or maybe I felt they couldn't sink any lower, boy was I wrong! Fool me 4 times shame on me!
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by The Saint 007 »

dirtybenny wrote:I think I was more disappointed in myself, when I realized I had a tiny ember of hope that the movie after SF would be somewhat of a return to some semblance of the old Bond. It was some sort of blind, insane, unjustified optimism. I don't know why, I guess it was the ending with the padded door, M behind the desk, and Moneypenny settling in behind her's. Or maybe I felt they couldn't sink any lower, boy was I wrong! Fool me 4 times shame on me!
Having been introduced to the Bond films as a kid, and devoting years of time and money to the series, I too can't help trying to be optimistic that things will go back to a more traditional Bond style after the Craig era. Some will think even that's being too ridiculously optimistic. I see quite a number of fans on other forums who also fall for the false promises of traditional Bond returning presented in the Craig films, only to be disappointed again and again. But like I said, when you devote so much of your time and money to something you love, you can't help but have optimism, as silly as that may sound.

The filmmakers love to play the nostalgia cards, and I can't stand how these films simultaneously mock and piggyback on the older films. The iconic Aston Martin DB5 has been reduced to nostalgia bait, and is just way overused, in my opinion. But sadly it works, as I've heard that the revealing of the DB5 during Skyfall generated the most excitement amongst audiences at the cinema. As difficult as it may be for some fans, you just have to try to resist the attempts of nostalgia/false promises until the filmmakers truly give you what you want.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

The Saint 007 wrote:
dirtybenny wrote:I think I was more disappointed in myself, when I realized I had a tiny ember of hope that the movie after SF would be somewhat of a return to some semblance of the old Bond. It was some sort of blind, insane, unjustified optimism. I don't know why, I guess it was the ending with the padded door, M behind the desk, and Moneypenny settling in behind her's. Or maybe I felt they couldn't sink any lower, boy was I wrong! Fool me 4 times shame on me!
Having been introduced to the Bond films as a kid, and devoting years of time and money to the series, I too can't help trying to be optimistic that things will go back to a more traditional Bond style after the Craig era. Some will think even that's being too ridiculously optimistic. I see quite a number of fans on other forums who also fall for the false promises of traditional Bond returning presented in the Craig films, only to be disappointed again and again. But like I said, when you devote so much of your time and money to something you love, you can't help but have optimism, as silly as that may sound.

The filmmakers love to play the nostalgia cards, and I can't stand how these films simultaneously mock and piggyback on the older films. The iconic Aston Martin DB5 has been reduced to nostalgia bait, and is just way overused, in my opinion. But sadly it works, as I've heard that the revealing of the DB5 during Skyfall generated the most excitement amongst audiences at the cinema. As difficult as it may be for some fans, you just have to try to resist the attempts of nostalgia/false promises until the filmmakers truly give you what you want.
In Skyfall there were a lot of nostalgia cards-some one-liners,a car,a main theme actually being a movie..but then again you have that "troubled sould Bond"..Bond fixes his suit but then spends months on some island for months depressed on some island drinking pills and cheap alcohol... "what were you expecting,an exploding pen?" Yeah,I actuall f*cking was! :cuss: but then again you don't do Bond anymore so why should I,heh? I honestly don't think classic Bond will ever come as ling as Babs is runing the whole thing..she actually said how once she though about selling rights to another studio-well,maybe she should do that because someone new will actually know who or what Bond is...
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by commander0077again »

dirtybenny wrote:Well Commander,

Craig's excuse is;

Is instead of BOND being hypnotized in his version it is the AUDIENCE who are under an evil spell!
On a semi-serious note, I've just read an interesting study on the Harry Potter phenom by literature professor John Gardner. I haven't read the books, but after Gardner's, I've started to watch the films (btw, the films are said to be the biggest box office champs of all, over Bond, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc.).... so his theme being that one of the reasons that Potter hits people in the gut (not only kids) is that they address the true 'evil spells' of the world .... that's a long-winded comment that the audience really is hypnotized under an 'evil spell' ... the evil spell of mediocrity masquerading as 'art.' Bond doesn't masquerade as art, but somehow he also 'hits the gut' .... :cake:
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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Funny you mention Harry Potter, Commander, as I mention him briefly in the rant I'm working on. I've never read the books or saw the movies so I can't speak to them specifically, but to your point, Hollywood seems to have forgotten films are supposed to be an escape from reality, not an excuse to "rip from the headlines" and shoe horn commentary about contemporary social issues. A good example is the Lone Ranger film. Topics ranging (pardon the pun) from the corporate greed, war atrocities, and class warfare. Unfortunately quite a few people think this passes for "smart" and "insightful" writing.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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dirtybenny wrote:Funny you mention Harry Potter, Commander, as I mention him briefly in the rant I'm working on. I've never read the books or saw the movies so I can't speak to them specifically, but to your point, Hollywood seems to have forgotten films are supposed to be an escape from reality, not an excuse to "rip from the headlines" and shoe horn commentary about contemporary social issues. A good example is the Lone Ranger film. Topics ranging (pardon the pun) from the corporate greed, war atrocities, and class warfare. Unfortunately quite a few people think this passes for "smart" and "insightful" writing.
That seems very restrictive. "Films are supposed to be an escape from reality" - what, all films? Is there no room at all for anything other than escapist entertainment? And even populist films have always reflected the times in which they were made. To pick a random example, the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers was rooted in the red scares and McCarthyite witch hunts of the 1950s. Even the Bond films have often been based on topical events from the beginning, such as the space race. My issue with the Craig films, and even Goldeneye to an extent, is that it's so artlessly done that you feel like you're being lectured. Whereas something like TND can base its villain on Rupert Murdoch (with a dash of Bill Gates), but still be light-hearted and fun.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

Another problem is that they made Bond some kind of a troubled soul who doesn't know how to cope with his job... I honestly doubt that a guy like that would ever get a rank of naval commander... let's not forget how they went all over Fleming's Bond when they made him not coming from a upper class family. I mean,what the hell is that?
As for keeping up with the world-the first three Brosnan movies all did-GE questioned whether Bond fits in the post Cold War world,in TND the villain was a media mogul inspired by Murdoch and TWINE dealed with oil...they also kept up with time but they didn't make Bond an unrecognisable person like those last three movies did.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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Veronica wrote:Another problem is that they made Bond some kind of a troubled soul who doesn't know how to cope with his job... I honestly doubt that a guy like that would ever get a rank of naval commander... let's not forget how they went all over Fleming's Bond when they made him not coming from a upper class family. I mean,what the hell is that?
Bond in Fleming's books wasn't a troubled soul perhaps, but he was world weary. He wasn't a super-cool "smooth operator" like Connery or Moore. Timothy Dalton tried to capture this side of Bond though.

As for Bond being upper class, I'm not sure about that. There is not much information about Bond's background in the early books. In the later books it seems Fleming made Bond of partly Scottish heritage because Sean Connery was Scottish.

They also say in the book OHMSS that Bond is an ordinary name and not from an especially distinguished family. It wasn't like in the movie version where Bond had Dukes and Barons and whatnot in his family tree.

That Bond has good manners and knows about fine wines etc doesn't necessarily mean he is upper class. Besides I think people in the 50s and 60s generally behaved with more style and were smartly dressed and so on. Adult people didn't wear jeans and sneakers on the streets in those days, they wore suit and tie, well polished shoes etc. The women wore dresses, nice skirts, coats etc.

Maybe Bond is upper middle class, but not upper class?
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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His dad was a sales rep for Vickers, wasn't he? But he was posh enough to have a family motto.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Veronica »

Count_Lippe wrote:
Veronica wrote:Another problem is that they made Bond some kind of a troubled soul who doesn't know how to cope with his job... I honestly doubt that a guy like that would ever get a rank of naval commander... let's not forget how they went all over Fleming's Bond when they made him not coming from a upper class family. I mean,what the hell is that?
Bond in Fleming's books wasn't a troubled soul perhaps, but he was world weary. He wasn't a super-cool "smooth operator" like Connery or Moore. Timothy Dalton tried to capture this side of Bond though.

As for Bond being upper class, I'm not sure about that. There is not much information about Bond's background in the early books. In the later books it seems Fleming made Bond of partly Scottish heritage because Sean Connery was Scottish.

They also say in the book OHMSS that Bond is an ordinary name and not from an especially distinguished family. It wasn't like in the movie version where Bond had Dukes and Barons and whatnot in his family tree.

That Bond has good manners and knows about fine wines etc doesn't necessarily mean he is upper class. Besides I think people in the 50s and 60s generally behaved with more style and were smartly dressed and so on. Adult people didn't wear jeans and sneakers on the streets in those days, they wore suit and tie, well polished shoes etc. The women wore dresses, nice skirts, coats etc.

Maybe Bond is upper middle class, but not upper class?
yeah,it's true the world was different back then-Mad Men is an good example... but still Bond always had manners and there was this old-school charm about him...Craig's Bond is just another action guy in the league of Jason Bourne...Bond's family has a motto-that is a sign they are not a middle class family.
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