BJ, please! If you must quote me, quote ALL OF IT, don't CHANGE my quotes by omitting parts of them so that they fit your design. I didn't make any derogatory statement, I said people nowadays are unrefined twats, and if you don't see that you need glasses my darling.bjmdds wrote:Ale said: "Because it's WAY too refined for USA audiences...............And (sorry but this is the truth, and yes I AM being an Italian/European snob here, but it's still the truth) the vast majority of Americans won't even get half the jokes in there............. Truth be told, only Italian and French and the British upper class will get those references completely. Particularly refined Americans will at least get part of it. ...........I have a clear sense of why this didn't do well now. This? Is actually like the most stylish old Bond movies and people right now are WAY too ignorant and vulgar for this level of class and refinement...........WOMEN love it because if they are refined they will get to watch not only a great spy story, but also a fantastic fashion and style piece. It's not a movie for unrefined men, which means 95% of today's male audience will be immediately excluded from it. THAT is why it didn't do well"..................So the Americans are not refined enough to "get" the film's content and while women do "get" it, 95% of the male species do not, because they are neanderthals, and THAT is why it BOMBED at the box office? I guess the director geared his "SPY" action film towards European females and not men, who could never be expected to figure out how great this film truly is...........
Omega, you saw the film. Did you understand it? FBF?
I specifically spoke about Americans and the American market because the movie is DISTINCTLY European and very refined, and I prefaced it by saying I was gonna be "an Italian and European snob, but that's still the truth."
And I said that 95% of MEN nowadays (NOT JUST AMERICANS) are unrefined. I said REFINED WOMEN get it, NOT WOMEN IN GENERAL! And I said it's not a movie for unrefined men. Which means it IS a movie for most of the people here.
Do you not understand the reason why we despise this Bond so much is that we're not like the mass of vulgar men (AND WOMEN) out there, devoid of any class? You can't even see that the reason why the current Bond is doing well is because they made him a neanderthal who fits perfectly with the current vulgarity and lack of class?? I believe you DO see that, and since you do, then you should NEVER twist and turn my quotes AND say I am being derogatory?
Now telling the absolute truth about today's society is derogatory? And particularly about the US, where refinement has NEVER (EVER in history) been stuff that the majority even remotely appreciated, or was interested in? Americans are fabulous at making things PRACTICAL, but refined? Nope. Which doesn't mean there are NO refined Americans, there are, they are a TINY minority. And per the rest I said, this applies to a TINY minority in the world too at this point. (I said only Italian, French and the upper British Class would get that stuff in its entirety, and it is TRUE, whether one likes it or not, it's a matter of CULTURE. FASHION is in the DNA of Italian and French people. If you make a joke about US Baseball, people in the US will get it and the most of the rest of the world won't. If we make jokes that are distinctly European about FASHION, MOST AMERICANS WON'T GET THEM!)
You are misquoting me, and doing so on purpose. I'm not sure why, given you know you are NOT part of the unrefined contingent, so why would you even take offense? Do you not see what's going on around you? THE WHOLE WORLD is made of unrefined twats nowadays for the majority AND I added the movie is distinctly European, so EVEN WORSE for the US market. Here is my ACTUAL quote, not what you wrote that you changed and where you omitted details on purpose:
"I saw the film thanks to my friend who owns a movie theater and it's bloody GREAT!! NOW I understand why it did so badly in the US. Because it's WAY too refined for US audiences, and despite Solo in theory being American, the movie is distinctly European.
And (sorry but this is the truth, and yes I AM being an Italian/European snob here, but it's still the truth) the vast majority of Americans won't even get half the jokes in there. There are some HILARIOUS scenes with Cavill and Hammer fighting over dresses to pick for Vikander to pretend to be the fiancée, and I don't think American audiences even KNOW the brands mentioned there, let alone the underlying humor. Truth be told, only Italian and French and the British upper class will get those references completely. Particularly refined Americans will at least get part of it. But they need to be people who know the fashion of the 60s in depth. How many Americans of that kind are there? Not many.
I have a clear sense of why this didn't do well now. This? Is actually like the most stylish old Bond movies and people right now are WAY too ignorant and vulgar for this level of class and refinement.
You mean to tell me you don't get that? You mean to tell me you don't see that PEOPLE (Note I said PEOPLE not Americans when making my general statement) and Americans are WAY unrefined in general? Please let's make a poll and see how many Americans know who JEAN PATOU is, and they must know by themselves, not because they google it, cause you can't go google someone while you're at the movie theater and he is the subject of one of the jokes about Vikander's dresses. And that will exactly make my point.
It's a whole movie with references, mentions, attitude and humor that is NOT American. It is distinctly European and extremely refined. And because it's SO MUCH about style and fashion, WOMEN will certainly appreciate it more than men IF THEY ARE REFINED. Which is what I wrote. I said MY US FEMALE FRIENDS LOVED IT, that's because THEY are refined women.
Here is the quote:
I knew there had to be some reason and I KNEW it couldn't be anything about the plot, cause those who were fans of the show and watched it said that while the first half was a bit slow, things definitely picked up in the second (which is true). My US FEMALE friends who went to see it, loved it. WOMEN love it because if they are refined they will get to watch not only a great spy story, but also a fantastic fashion and style piece. It's not a movie for unrefined men, which means 95% of today's male audience will be immediately excluded from it. THAT is why it didn't do well.
Not only it's not derogatory in the slightest (and it makes me laugh that any man would define this derogatory when men, especially white, are always in the dominant position. Nothing OF THIS KIND, so FLUFFY about fashion or not being refined, about men can ever be derogatory, cause they don't even know what being VICTIMS of a derogatory statement means. They are always very much dominating all aspects of society AND on the contrary, they're the ones making derogatory statements about others), BUT IT IS THE TRUTH. Shall we make a quick poll on how many men nowadays know how it works to be APPROPRIATELY dressed. And I mean in a CLASSY, refined way. No shorts (NOPE, NO SHORTS, there are NO SHORTS THAT ARE REFINED, those are only to be worn AT THE BEACH), NO SHORT SOCKS with suits (the vast majority of American men ONLY wear those), NO SNEAKERS? Just these three examples, when you look at people in the street in the US will show how my point is ENTIRELY true. The fact THE MAJORITY is unrefined doesn't mean that there are NO people who are. I said 95% that leaves a 5 percent of refined people, of which we all know people on here, including you, are part.
I hope you were just being sarcastic. And please don't again twist and turn my quotes to fit your momentary disdain. You haven't even SEEN U.N.C.L.E. and you decided to pass on it based on judgments around sites, cause everyone who saw it on this forum liked it. That's fine and your decision, but don't try to twist and turn what I said, by purposely omitting parts of my sentences and extrapolating pieces of a sentence. I don't even remotely understand why you should try to define REALITY derogatory (about MEN no less) especially when you are NOT part of certain majorities of society.
So yeah, not only my point is entirely valid, but it's merely the truth about things nowadays, whether one likes it or not. Particularly in America, that is a country where refinement was NEVER something primary. COMFORT, yes. Being practical, yes. The US is fantastic for that. Refinement is something that is SORELY lacking EVERYWHERE right now, and in the US the difference is even more marked because it was never as widespread as in other places, it's merely a CULTURAL attitude. Which again, means that 5% of refined Americans exists and is great, but that's NOT enough to make a movie like this succeed.
PARTICULARLY in America IF a movie is DISTINCTLY EUROPEAN which is the first thing I said. That's all there is to it.
