The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[dirtybenny]

let me preface this by saying I'm a progressive liberal living in the United States. No matter what games each side wants to play with race, turning BOND black, woman or (especially) gay (since part of the legend is womanizing) is just plain stoopid, simply destroys the historic 007 rendering the whole thing meaningless. The Craig films have done enough damage, to those who can discern anyway. When we see the n word in Huckleberry Finn, do we demand it be taken out? no we accept it for what was. That's not saying Bond has to be portrayed as an out and out racist (as Fleming most definitely was) in the films, which he never was, maybe apart from ordering Quarrel to fetch his shoes in Dr. No (and there have been notorious gay slurs in the early films such as Bond dispatching the final villain in Diamonds Are Forever), but neither do we have to go completely in the other direction and make Bond black (woman, gay). To the argument that Bond is a fictional character thus "anyone" should be able to play him, I reply in one of the books Fleming described Bond as looking like Hoagey Carmichael. Go take a look at Hoagey Carmichael. He ain't black. As for Daniel Craig vs. previous Bonds, I always laughed when critics applauded any return to the "true" Bond when in fact the Fu Manchu type plots were part of Fleming as well, Drax building a missile to turn on London, Dr. No and his giant pet squid, SPECTRE stealing atom bombs, Goldfinger robbing Fort Knox, Blofeld and his plot to use a bevy of beautiful women to destroy life on the planet, Blofeld and his Japanese suicide garden . . . I'm another who wishes Cavill had been chosen, he at least would have been the better Bond in terms of the classic look (my GAWD, the jug ears on Craig, sometimes he looks like he belongs in Lord of the Rings, not 007), but apparently in addition to wanting to destroy her father's version of Bond, Barbara Broccoli also had the hots for Craig.

Well put OKC, unfortunately there are those who demand works including but not limited to Huck Finn be banned because of the inclusion of some unfortunate words and phrases from another era. That has mentality has bled over in to all media and that is why we get the "feminisation" of Bond and inclusion of homoerotic dialogue in SF. I also laugh at the revisionists who claim "gritty" "realistic" plots are a "return to Fleming" as you point out nothing could be farther from the truth!

[okconnery]

outing myself hahaha as a progressive liberal doesn't mean I voted for Obama, in fact I laughed at the Obamamaniacs (the supposedly smarter ones) for pretending that Obama would be any better or worse or less corporatistic than Hillary Clinton (who in fact makes it easier not harder for Jeb Bush to run for many reasons too detailed to into here right now). I stopped voting after 2004 when the Green party had to shame Kerry into challenging the Ohio election, although I should have voted for Cynthia McKinney in 2008, I was just so out of it by then I didn't realize it was THAT McKinney on the green party ticket! Take ObamaCare for instance which is clearly more fascistic than socialist . . . the corporate media ACKNOWLEDGES the law was written by corporate lobbyists, we're being (once again) forced into buying something from a corporation. While the public does get some benefit, the "public assistance" goes directly into the corporate pocket in the form of "lower premiums" and what amounts to corporations robbing the treasury gives the health insurance corporations a trillion dollar "windfall" over the next 10 years. Chief Justice Roberts, who has a history of siding with corporations, in deciding the law went out of his way to declare the ObamaCare penalty a tax and thus made the law constitutional/legal . . . the Supreme Court has another chance of disposing with ObamaCare again in June 2015, by declaring some of the public subsidies not legal under the law as devised by congress, which would destroy the law AKA very few would be able to afford it without the public subsidies. The health insurer corporations of course are backing keeping the subsidies, which are a large part of their trillion dollar windfall, and I am certain Chief Justice Roberts will go out of his way to again jump in, what is actually in favor of the corporations, and save the law once again.

[bjmdds]

Roberts is a Bush appointed bum OK Conery who sold out to the insurance companies and Oh-bama as well and why are they waiting until June to decide the Non-affordable health care subsidy debate? ....... Forbes:"This new iteration also has the most dangerous tight rope the franchise has had to walk: adapting a Cold War era spy to the modern media landscape where hashtag outrage and the rise of the commenter has lead to calls for diversity and feminism in America’s modern blockbusters.The Bond franchise has never been notable for it’s political correctness or forward-thinking portrayals of its hallmark Bond girls. With Spectre’s plot on the internet for anyone curious enough to look, its pre-production debates picked over for the juiciest gossip, its budget digging a deep hole for the box office to climb out of and a new Bond in the wings that would be a positive diversity PR spin for a company getting called out by an American President, is it possible that Spectre is doomed before it even completes production?"

[Omega]

Hacker assholes! Lizard squad jagoffs dos attached Xbox live and psn. What the hell about my christmass kill streak?!

I'm half joking but I am PO'ed as hell.

new thought

What if this is revenge for distributing that d**n interview movie

[kater23]

One of my friends downloaded The Interview(legally, not sure what site it was from).

[Omega]

One of my friends downloaded The Interview(legally, not sure what site it was from).

I think this is how movies will be distributed before too long.

Thing is I feel Sony is milking this for as much as they can get

But the price isn't too bad I guess. I would of made it dirt cheap/ free and gone unrated with all the cuts made to make Korea happy removed and the original intent of the film makes restored.

[okconnery]

speaking of (actual) fascism (Obamacare), I'm old enough to remember the late 60s/early 70s and the discussions that went on over 007 being an imperialist lackey hahaha. Yes the fact is 007 has always worked for a fascist regime, maybe even more so now than then! Liberals like myself had a choice of either taking that in stride, treating it as a guilty pleasure (in other words, when to take something seriously and when not, especially as the movies were never meant to be serious, in fact Broccoli/Saltzman deliberately injected humor because they knew a GRIM, MOROSE BOND --- get the hint? hahaha -- would never see another cinematic adventure after Dr. No)

OR their other choice throw out the books stop watching the movies which obviously some of them long since have done seeing some of the amazing comments being posted on the limbaugh etc stories. The question of Bond as imperial lackey was actually one of the few interesting aspects of Quantum of Solace. Bond seems to become the Zapata of Bolivia, siding with the people against Quantum's water grab, and drawing the enmity of his own govt until his own govt realizes it's not about oil but about water (? that's as much sense as I could make out of the plot hahaha). Another interesting part is when Strawberry Fields falls into bed with the utterly charmless Bond as played by Craig. Craig has all the charm of a slug, which argues against all these women falling into bed with him, but that may finally explain why in Skyfall he has to settle for a pity screw from Moneypenny and for boffing the poor sex slave/prostitute even after he has already gotten what he needs from her, Silva's location and means of getting there. (a same sort of scene was handled much more deftly in Man With The Golden Gun, when Scaramanga's sex slave as played by Maud Adams tells Bond he can have Scaramanga and the solar thing too depending on how well he screws her!) I would even question whether the films are all that especially sexist, because I don't think that portraying sexually aggressive or assertive women is necessarily sexism, but the way Skyfall treats the sex slave character (tho she is also a complicit murderess), is a definite step backward in that area. Going back to the Strawberry Fields scene, the only worse seduction scene that comes to mind in the Bond films is also the worst seduction scene in the history of cinema, played out by Roger Moore and Maud Adams in Octopussy after Bond pops out of the fake crocodile (I LOVED the fake crocodile hahaha)

The main reason I love the films especially the 60s films is in their overall cinematic value, not especially the character and especially not any real world value of the character, and the only particularly positive to say about Skyfall was that it LOOKED good, but without anything really interesting or inventive that characterized all that came before Craig, including Dalton and Brosnan eras, and remember after Quantum of Solace Craig said he had wanted out from the moment he got in, but they wouldn't let him out. So maybe Craig actually has SOME personal taste and love of the earlier films hahaha

[The Saint 007]

Going back to the Strawberry Fields scene, the only worse seduction scene that comes to mind in the Bond films is also the worst seduction scene in the history of cinema, played out by Roger Moore and Maud Adams in Octopussy after Bond pops out of the fake crocodile (I LOVED the fake crocodile hahaha)

To each their own, but I personally wouldn't go as far to say that the seduction scene in Octopussy is the worst in the history of cinema. There are other films with worse romance scenes, some that even take themselves far more seriously.

Aside from Quantum Of Solace, I thought the romance scenes with Bond and Vesper in Casino Royale were pretty bad. The lovey-dovey dialogue sounds like something from a soap opera.

[John P. Drake]

Aside from Quantum Of Solace, I thought the romance scenes with Bond and Vesper in Casino Royale were pretty bad. The lovey-dovey dialogue sounds like something from a soap opera.

Better make that two. Something I never thought I'd see in a Bond film. Similar scenes from OHMSS bother me too.

[Alessandra]

Forget this Fass-bendover nonsense. He looks awful for Bond, but as a villain, yes. For those of you who STILL doubt Cavill's ability to portray a proper, younger Bond, watch this again, and picture this as his introduction to the role at the end of his opening scene before the title song is sung, in 2018: [video][/video] If he's not Bond, who the hell is?

THANK YOU. IF he is not Bond, who the hell is? Seriously. He just IS Bond naturally. Doesn't even need to try at all. He has the natural charm and charisma, because that's the way he is. AND he is the perfect Pierce Brosnan heir which makes me EVEN happier.

That said, Sweeney certainly has a point about him being well established now... BUT, and this is a big but, things are changing majorly for Bond, too... especially with what's going on at Sony. So that's why I think he still CAN have the role. Honestly, he's the ONLY one around who is perfect for Bond as far as I'm concerned. I really do mean perfect. There can be other "ok" fits, but no one is as perfect as he is for Bond.

[Alessandra]

let me preface this by saying I'm a progressive liberal living in the United States. No matter what games each side wants to play with race, turning BOND black, woman or (especially) gay (since part of the legend is womanizing) is just plain stoopid, simply destroys the historic 007 rendering the whole thing meaningless. The Craig films have done enough damage, to those who can discern anyway. When we see the n word in Huckleberry Finn, do we demand it be taken out? no we accept it for what was. That's not saying Bond has to be portrayed as an out and out racist (as Fleming most definitely was) in the films, which he never was, maybe apart from ordering Quarrel to fetch his shoes in Dr. No (and there have been notorious gay slurs in the early films such as Bond dispatching the final villain in Diamonds Are Forever), but neither do we have to go completely in the other direction and make Bond black (woman, gay). To the argument that Bond is a fictional character thus "anyone" should be able to play him, I reply in one of the books Fleming described Bond as looking like Hoagey Carmichael. Go take a look at Hoagey Carmichael. He ain't black. As for Daniel Craig vs. previous Bonds, I always laughed when critics applauded any return to the "true" Bond when in fact the Fu Manchu type plots were part of Fleming as well, Drax building a missile to turn on London, Dr. No and his giant pet squid, SPECTRE stealing atom bombs, Goldfinger robbing Fort Knox, Blofeld and his plot to use a bevy of beautiful women to destroy life on the planet, Blofeld and his Japanese suicide garden . . . I'm another who wishes Cavill had been chosen, he at least would have been the better Bond in terms of the classic look (my GAWD, the jug ears on Craig, sometimes he looks like he belongs in Lord of the Rings, not 007), but apparently in addition to wanting to destroy her father's version of Bond, Barbara Broccoli also had the hots for Craig.

Well put OKC, unfortunately there are those who demand works including but not limited to Huck Finn be banned because of the inclusion of some unfortunate words and phrases from another era. That has mentality has bled over in to all media and that is why we get the "feminisation" of Bond and inclusion of homoerotic dialogue in SF. I also laugh at the revisionists who claim "gritty" "realistic" plots are a "return to Fleming" as you point out nothing could be farther from the truth!

Agree completely with what okconnery said. The character of James Bond is described precisely in Fleming's books and he most definitely isn't black. That's all there is to it. It's not about racism, it's not about not wanting Elba and God knows I'd have liked Denzel Washington to be Bond at some point (now HE had far better looks than Elba if we want to go with a black actor), but he is American and black, so no, not right fort he part. What I mean is it's not like I have a mental preclusion to it with the absolutely perfect actor for it... but Bond is NOT black. And it's not just a matter of aesthetics. Elizabeth Bennet is white and her being white, British, country gentry, is part of who she is. Same way, Bond being WASP is who the character is. It's just and only about that. These people are white and British and a certain way because that's who their characters are, full stop. Bond can't be black. That is an insult to Fleming's very precise description of Bond in the books and to WHO James Bond is. Just like I don't want to see only white Egyptians in a movie about pharaohs because that is ridiculous and inaccurate (and it serves the director right that they banned the movie in Egypt for the gross historical inaccuracies), I don't want a black Bond, it's that simple. Inaccurate and not who the character is.

We are, needless to say, in complete agreement over Henry Cavill. I'm just glad he didn't have to deal with this particular trainwreck... there again, had HE been Bond, the franchise certainly would NOT have gone in the same direction, so... let's hope all these VERY BAD for Sony and Eon and VERY GOOD for us (it's great to be publicly vindicated) happenings, bring on the chance for him to be the next Bond.

[bjmdds]

Aside from Quantum Of Solace, I thought the romance scenes with Bond and Vesper in Casino Royale were pretty bad. The lovey-dovey dialogue sounds like something from a soap opera.

Better make that two. Something I never thought I'd see in a Bond film. Similar scenes from OHMSS bother me too.

This is next for Cr-egg's love scenes: [video][/video]

[Daltonite Toothpaste]

Looking like the natural heir to Brosnan is exactly why I hope Cavill will never get anywhere near the role of Bond.

[bjmdds]

You don't think Cavill looks like Bond DT? ..........."The final act for Spectre was leaked, and in one e-mail conversation that was also leaked, it has been revealed that top Sony executives were not impressed with how the movie's ending was written. The e-mail also revealed that the writer responsible for the ending was fired because of it."

[Daltonite Toothpaste]

Looking like Bond is only half the requirement, acting like Bond is the rest. My problem with Cavill is that he reminds me too much of a younger Brosnan.

[bjmdds]

Cr-egg looks platypus-like and acts like an orangutan, so he struck out on both counts.

[Daltonite Toothpaste]

As Tanner said in GoldenEye "Too bad the evil queen won't let anyone else near the role of Bond."

[Kiwichris]

I'll be interested to see how he goes in The Man from U.N.C.L.E.. I think that will give us a good idea if he is 007 material.

[bjmdds]

"Isn't 007 supposed to handsome? Glad you think I've got a shot! Happy New year people."

- Idris Elba (@idriselba) December 27, 2014

[John P. Drake]

Some people are just too much of stupid retards to think anyone can be anything, these days. And that doesn't go for Bond only (I couldn't care less), hell this "colour blind" thing is too much of a fraud that gives me a splitting headache! No such absolute thing as "racism" when we actually express no-nonsense things. If a character is white, written white, and like the good old Sweeney said, never experienced racism in his background, then how could you bloody cast an actor of another race in that role for God's sake?! Hell, Colin Salmon said to someone I know once that "Bond shouldn't be black, and will not be black in this time and age." Batman has been alive for 75 years, or over, and I've never seen DC making him black. Why?! Because they think straight, not narrow. Racism comes when we don't give the blacks or Asians the same human and equal rights to work like us, live like us, become doctors like us and have the same rights like we do. But to say, a white can be black or vice versa? Now, that takes things to the level of absolute ignorance I'm really really fed up with this politically correct piece of crap.



P.S. Apologies for letting go of my anger in a very rude manner.