The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[FormerBondFan]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

I wonder if this is going to happen to Star Trek XI in the next few years.

[Omega]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

I'll tell you what the trouble is right here CR is dull. I will forget all about who is cast as the lead, the bag guys, leading ladies and the plot are dull. A few bright points but it is not a story that will hold its own with dignity as we get further way from 2006, it may be average as a spy flick but as Bond movie it is very dull.
A few short years it is already a very dated movie.

Quantum on the other hand is total nonsense. Unforgivable.

[The Sweeney]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

I'll tell you what the trouble is right here CR is dull. I will forget all about who is cast as the lead, the bag guys, leading ladies and the plot are dull. A few bright points but it is not a story that will hold its own with dignity as we get further way from 2006, it may be average as a spy flick but as Bond movie it is very dull.
A few short years it is already a very dated movie.

I don't agree with you on this at all, but anyway....

[Kristatos]

You can say Bond 23's opening might be effected by the general disappointment of QOS, I don't doubt it. However I think there will be plenty of people coming up on opening weekend in the hopes of Craig having a film about as good as CR. We'll see when we get there.

I've been saying that for a while. However, that was before the current delays in Bond 23. Do you think there's a chance that a longer gap might actually help the film's opening weekend, because it gives people a chance to forget how rubbish QOS was?

[stockslivevan]

You can say Bond 23's opening might be effected by the general disappointment of QOS, I don't doubt it. However I think there will be plenty of people coming up on opening weekend in the hopes of Craig having a film about as good as CR. We'll see when we get there.

I've been saying that for a while. However, that was before the current delays in Bond 23. Do you think there's a chance that a longer gap might actually help the film's opening weekend, because it gives people a chance to forget how rubbish QOS was?

Perhaps. I think CR for the most part will define his tenure, even if he makes better films down the road they'll be under CR's shadow. Much like how GE shadowed Brosnan's other three films.

[JackWade CIA]

You can say Bond 23's opening might be effected by the general disappointment of QOS, I don't doubt it. However I think there will be plenty of people coming up on opening weekend in the hopes of Craig having a film about as good as CR. We'll see when we get there.

I've been saying that for a while. However, that was before the current delays in Bond 23. Do you think there's a chance that a longer gap might actually help the film's opening weekend, because it gives people a chance to forget how rubbish QOS was?

Perhaps the opposite?
QOS has left a stain on Craig's time as Bond, for me Cr is ruined because those two are connected. I don't think the longer wait will make people forget QOS if anything it will cement it in their minds and CR will continue to lose the high regard it once held.

But I think it will do fine because it is a "Bond Movie" and the machine that being a Bond movie entails will pull it through like it did for QOS.

[JackWade CIA]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

I'll tell you what the trouble is right here CR is dull. I will forget all about who is cast as the lead, the bag guys, leading ladies and the plot are dull. A few bright points but it is not a story that will hold its own with dignity as we get further way from 2006, it may be average as a spy flick but as Bond movie it is very dull.
A few short years it is already a very dated movie.

Quantum on the other hand is total nonsense. Unforgivable.

Where did CR lose you? It has plenty of action and was more of action flick than the last 20.

[Skywalker]

You can say Bond 23's opening might be effected by the general disappointment of QOS, I don't doubt it. However I think there will be plenty of people coming up on opening weekend in the hopes of Craig having a film about as good as CR. We'll see when we get there.

I've been saying that for a while. However, that was before the current delays in Bond 23. Do you think there's a chance that a longer gap might actually help the film's opening weekend, because it gives people a chance to forget how rubbish QOS was?

Perhaps. I think CR for the most part will define his tenure, even if he makes better films down the road they'll be under CR's shadow. Much like how GE shadowed Brosnan's other three films.

Others could argue that the disappointing QOS is a far more accurate representation of his Bond tenure. I think his next Bond outing will define his Bond portrayal and I can see it crashing as they've done the 'Thug Bond' to death and light hearted comedy isn't exactly Craig's strong point.

[Mazer Rackham]

For the faithful who dutifully believe this break will mean Eon gets their act together and salvages the muscled miscreant Bond remember what MGW said after TWINE, putting the work in the next script with the extra time off so it's quality.

This is also the team who had Bond 22 ready to go back in 2006.

I wouldn't anticipate Craig figuring out what is wrong with his portrayal or what went wrong with Quark. My expectation would be for him to pile on more meaningless nonsense under the guise of drama. The same stuff the choked Quark and impaled CR.

[Mazer Rackham]

Others could argue that the disappointing QOS is a far more accurate representation of his Bond tenure. I think his next Bond outing will define his Bond portrayal and I can see it crashing as they've done the 'Thug Bond' to death and light hearted comedy isn't exactly Craig's strong point.

Exactly so.
The tripe in Quark (QoS) has a root directly to Craig and even further to the producer's new political world vision as started in CR.

[stockslivevan]

For the faithful who dutifully believe this break will mean Eon gets their act together and salvages the muscled miscreant Bond remember what MGW said after TWINE, putting the work in the next script with the extra time off so it's quality.

I remember they waited til 2002 purely so that they could do the 20th film on the 40th anniversary. From what I understand, the original script by Purvis and Wade had Bond trying to track down a mole in MI6, the same person who turned him over to the Koreans. I believe M even rendezvoused with Bond in the abandoned subway station because it was better that the mole wouldn't be aware of Bond returning to MI6. However, once Lee Tamahori came on board and took over, the producers gave him a lot of freedom for changing the script to his liking so the whole premise was turned into a barely subplot that was barely given any kind of attention other than the first ten minutes and halted all the way to when Gustav Graves finally brings up "oh yeah, remember that whole subplot about you finding the mole in MI6? how far are we on that?". So with Tamahori a lot of emphasis was taken on the film being an anniversary celebration/homage, elements of Moonraker tacked on with something about conflict diamonds and so on.

So in the long run it could have been a decent entry, EON just gave the creative stuff to the wrong director. I can't remember for sure, but I think he's one of the few Bond directors that were not asked to come back for a second film. I think his idea of Pierce Brosnan being the son of Sean Connery pretty much shouted at MGW and Babs that they hired the wrong guy.

[Kristatos]

I remember they waited til 2002 purely so that they could do the 20th film on the 40th anniversary. From what I understand, the original script by Purvis and Wade had Bond trying to track down a mole in MI6, the same person who turned him over to the Koreans. I believe M even rendezvoused with Bond in the abandoned subway station because it was better that the mole wouldn't be aware of Bond returning to MI6. However, once Lee Tamahori came on board and took over, the producers gave him a lot of freedom for changing the script to his liking (snip)

And yet Purvis and Wade seem to get all the blame. As with CR, their original script sounds a lot better than the finished product.

[Omega]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

I'll tell you what the trouble is right here CR is dull. I will forget all about who is cast as the lead, the bag guys, leading ladies and the plot are dull. A few bright points but it is not a story that will hold its own with dignity as we get further way from 2006, it may be average as a spy flick but as Bond movie it is very dull.
A few short years it is already a very dated movie.

Quantum on the other hand is total nonsense. Unforgivable.

Where did CR lose you? It has plenty of action and was more of action flick than the last 20.

It lost me after the first 10 min. After that it became a drawn out badly contrived dull excursion. There was no zest for life. No real feeling of being drive to the ends and half way around the world.

Look back at CR again if you dare and you'll see how dull it is and how dated it has become. It is not that old a film but it is clearly dated and somewhat sillier for it.

[Kristatos]

Where did CR lose you? It has plenty of action and was more of action flick than the last 20.

How do you figure that? It only had 3 major action setpieces (the African embassy scene, the Miami airport chase and the Venice climax) and the last of those was largely redundant. Most of the movie was based around a poker game.

[bjmdds]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

So they are more in line with my thinking over time than your's in regard to the non-greatness of CR, the infomercial for poker players?

[The Sweeney]

A shift towards or away from Craig on these other forums(MI6;Cb.net)?

A shift away. I've definitely noticed CR getting bashed more now - from the same fans who loved it when it first came out.....

So they are more in line with my thinking over time than your's in regard to the non-greatness of CR, the infomercial for poker players?

In general they are bashing things like the Miami airport scene and the Venice scene for being too unrealistic, too Brosnan, and not honoring Fleming's novel correctly - not bashing the reasons you don't like CR.

But I find it could be a new trend to suddenly turn on the last thing made, and start to slag it off, the way many of the forum fans turned on Brosnan after his reign ended. I always hated Brosnan, the way you guys here always hated Craig. Fickle could be the word used to describe this trend I'm seeing.

However BJ, let me also state I'm only speaking about a handful of people here with this shift - not the entire gang of MI6 and CBn - the majority of whom still love Craig. Overall, the majority are more in line with my way of thinking than yours......

[The Sweeney]

Where did CR lose you? It has plenty of action and was more of action flick than the last 20.

How do you figure that? It only had 3 major action setpieces (the African embassy scene, the Miami airport chase and the Venice climax) and the last of those was largely redundant. Most of the movie was based around a poker game.

To me this was one of the big plus points of CR - less action, and more focused on the novel Fleming wrote.

[bjmdds]

Wikipedia claims Craig signed a 5 film contract in 2005. I hope this is not the case or else this forum, this Dumbledore's army of Bond fans, will have our work cut out for us over the next 6-7 years! I might have to send FBF and Captain Kirk to do something about this if it is true.

[bjmdds]

Where did CR lose you? It has plenty of action and was more of action flick than the last 20.

How do you figure that? It only had 3 major action setpieces (the African embassy scene, the Miami airport chase and the Venice climax) and the last of those was largely redundant. Most of the movie was based around a poker game.

To me this was one of the big plus points of CR - less action, and more focused on the novel Fleming wrote.

Less action=better Bond film?

[The Sweeney]

Where did CR lose you? It has plenty of action and was more of action flick than the last 20.

How do you figure that? It only had 3 major action setpieces (the African embassy scene, the Miami airport chase and the Venice climax) and the last of those was largely redundant. Most of the movie was based around a poker game.

To me this was one of the big plus points of CR - less action, and more focused on the novel Fleming wrote.

Less action=better Bond film?

Absolutely!!! Why do you think I love CR but not QoS.
Look at the brilliant FRWL - how much action is in that movie? Look at the brilliant OHMSS - again, there are long periods with little action in the film.