The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[The Sweeney]

Crooked governments (they invariably are!!!) and others constantly use statisitics to prove their point.

As an example: With the set of figures given above, I can remove the Chinese Box Office Figures for Quantum of Solace as only the last few Bonds have been released in that country.

Quantum of Solace made $20000000 in China. So dividing the that figure by the average ticket price, it gained 3.6 million admissions.

Did you remove the Chinese BO figures for Brozza's films too then?

Also, maybe we should factor in VHS and DVD's not been readily available back in the 60's, and fewer TV channels available as a reason why BO admissions were so high then. Do we also factor in recessions in certain years too (like the one we are in now)?

[The Sweeney]

As an example: With the set of figures given above, I can remove the Chinese Box Office Figures for Quantum of Solace as only the last few Bonds have been released in that country.

That's a good point.

In that case, did he remove the Chinese BO figures for Brozza too then?

You guys just look for any angle you can get to put Craig in a bad light. All I did was post a list of BO admissions, and because you don't like what it shows, you start desperately looking for any angle to change it, distort it, alter it, to put Craig back in a bad light again. Removing the Chinese BO figures is about as desperate as you can get.......

[LilleOSC]

As an example: With the set of figures given above, I can remove the Chinese Box Office Figures for Quantum of Solace as only the last few Bonds have been released in that country.

That's a good point.

NO...........its not a good point.........you should take into account the revenue opportunities a film has in its era.

There's never ever going to be a direct comparison!!

i.e. prior to the DVD and Video era people had to go to the cinema to see a film, now people can bypass the cinema and wait for these other mediums to view the films of their choice.

EA

You're right. My mistake.

[Gary Seven]

As an example: With the set of figures given above, I can remove the Chinese Box Office Figures for Quantum of Solace as only the last few Bonds have been released in that country.

That's a good point.

In that case, did he remove the Chinese BO figures for Brozza too then?

You guys just look for any angle you can get to put Craig in a bad light. All I did was post a list of BO admissions, and because you don't like what it shows, you start desperately looking for any angle to change it, distort it, alter it, to put Craig back in a bad light again. Removing the Chinese BO figures is about as desperate as you can get.......

Brosnan's Bond movies were not released in China. I think Roger was amusingly pointing out that statistics can be twisted to suit an agenda.

I read that (adjusted for 2008) Die Another Day had twice the budget of Casino Royale, and Quantum of Solace had a third more than Die Another Day. Bond 23 is bound to have a smaller budget.

[bjmdds]

New Year's 2009 resolution for DCINB: To continue the contrary debate and see if Eon has finally seen the light and will bring back the James Bond character that MOST of us want to see. It will start with the realization that QOS was NOT received as well as CR, which we ALL can admit and agree on, for the numerous poor critical reviews and an underwhelming box office based on film 21's total, factoring in higher ticket prices now than in 2006, twice as many screenings per day as CR had, and the huge opening USA weekend box office revenue which snow balled downward sharply and quickly, all proved that point. Craig's fate is in the balance with the corporate bean counters. Do they keep him, spend probably as much, never less, in Bond 23, and try to turn him into a charismatically charming Bond, which in all accounts he is incapable of becoming, nor does he desire to be, OR, does Eon realize the 'worm has turned' and the public now lacks support of a Haggis penned Bournish-Bond, and replaces him? Craig is not a lock for the next film by any means. Broccoli's Craigaholic attitude seems to be the guiding hand so far, BUT, even with a $500 million+ box office for QOSTBM, will they invest any more dollars in an actor who after the huge opening weekend, failed to deliver, once the dust settled and people saw him for what he truly is:sour, dour, depressed, angry, thuggish, and rather Bourne-like? 2009 will either continue the necessity for this site or vindicate it's existence. We shall see.....do not ask Daniel for whom the bell tolls.....it may toll for thee....as Bond, in 2009.

[LilleOSC]

I do wonder what changes (if any) EON will make for Bond 23. How likely is it that they will heed Craig's suggestion of re-introducing Q and Moneypenny? I would rather see a more suave (Connery-esque might be too much to ask) Bond in the next film than Q and Moneypenny.

[Kristatos]

New Year's 2009 resolution for DCINB: To continue the contrary debate and see if Eon has finally seen the light and will bring back the James Bond character that MOST of us want to see. It will start with the realization that QOS was NOT received as well as CR, which we ALL can admit and agree on, for the numerous poor critical reviews and an underwhelming box office based on film 21's total, factoring in higher ticket prices now than in 2006, twice as many screenings per day as CR had, and the huge opening USA weekend box office revenue which snow balled downward sharply and quickly, all proved that point. Craig's fate is in the balance with the corporate bean counters. Do they keep him, spend probably as much, never less, in Bond 23, and try to turn him into a charismatically charming Bond, which in all accounts he is incapable of becoming, nor does he desire to be, OR, does Eon realize the 'worm has turned' and the public now lacks support of a Haggis penned Bournish-Bond, and replaces him? Craig is not a lock for the next film by any means. Broccoli's Craigaholic attitude seems to be the guiding hand so far, BUT, even with a $500 million+ box office for QOSTBM, will they invest any more dollars in an actor who after the huge opening weekend, failed to deliver, once the dust settled and people saw him for what he truly is:sour, dour, depressed, angry, thuggish, and rather Bourne-like? 2009 will either continue the necessity for this site or vindicate it's existence. We shall see.....do not ask Daniel for whom the bell tolls.....it may toll for thee....as Bond, in 2009.

I dunno, QOS probably did good enough business to cover Craig's ass, but judging by the sharp drops, it seems to have done so almost entirely through the goodwill generated by CR. That goodwill won't exist for Bond 23, so it'll be interesting to see what MGM does to recapture it.

[The Sweeney]

It seems like EON struck gold with CR - global critical acclaim and huge BO figures - bigger than anything achieved during Brozza's era.

QoS has failed to capitalise on the success of CR. The goodwill and big opening weekends spoke volumes about how much people enjoyed Craig's first outing as Bond, and expected more of the same with QoS. Unfortunately, they didn't get what they hoped for.

So, it is back to the drawing board for EON, but their one prized asset at the moment is Craig. Ditch Forster, ditch the writers, and ditch Bradley. They cocked up QoS, along with the help of Babs and Co. The critics have had the knives out too with this second film, yet mostly even the negative reviews still managed to praise Craig in the process.

Craig is here for Bond 23. But how the film will be is a different matter entirely. I don't entirely trust EON's direction anymore. It seems that everytime they try to steer clear of the source material and come up with something original, they mess it up. This was clear under Brozza's reign, and is becoming clear again with Craig's 2nd outing. CR could just be a one-off fluke - never to be repeated. And that was because the film relied heavily on Fleming's novel.

[katied]

2009 will either continue the necessity for this site or vindicate it's existence. We shall see.....do not ask Daniel for whom the bell tolls.....it may toll for thee....as Bond, in 2009.

I'll be here posting even if it's a slow year,Bond-news wise..

[oscartheman]

I tired to look at Quantums take since Sunday and nobody has it listed.was it pulled already?

[bjmdds]

Only Variety.com is showing it's daily meager take, at around $320,000 per day. Eon desperately wants it to top CR to "claim" USA success but this is a pipe dream due to ticket prices being higher and more daily screenings than CR. By the way, Jeffrey Lyons, a NY film critic, liked Defiance as a war film, "despite Craig's Bela Legosi accent".

[The Sweeney]

Spin and twist this anyway you want, BJ, but QoS may still end up equalling CR, or even topping it at the BO - something I know you have been very obsessive about from day one. Ticket prices may have gone up, more screenings, bigger drop-off, etc., but if you want to spin the negatives around this, you also have to look at the global financial crisis we are in currently too, which was not around in 2006. You have to factor in that too.

Either way, Craig's BO is better than Brozza's, and so therefore greenlit automatically for Bond 23. Will EON be foolish enough to spend ridiculous amounts again to earn little profit? Will EON steer clear of any unused Fleming material (there's still plenty)? Will they try and get Campbell back again? Will they try to re-create the success of CR? Or will we be suffering another Brozza-type decline again?

It'll be fun finding out in 2009.....

[Kristatos]

So, it is back to the drawing board for EON, but their one prized asset at the moment is Craig.

Until the fickle public decides to hold him personally responsible for everything that was wrong with his movies, as they did Brosnan and (with slightly more justification) Moore.

[The Sweeney]

So, it is back to the drawing board for EON, but their one prized asset at the moment is Craig.

Until the fickle public decides to hold him personally responsible for everything that was wrong with his movies, as they did Brosnan and (with slightly more justification) Moore.

Depends on how bad Craig's films get. Right now, I'd still take QoS over anything from Brozza or Moore, but if Bond 23 ends up worse than QoS, or worse still, being like one of Brozza's movies, I think it'll be the end of the franchise for me. I'll wash my hands of it completely.

EON did the right thing in rebooting the franchise, and going back to a Fleming novel. QoS shows that they didn't exactly know where to go from there, and ballsed it up again.

[Kristatos]

I tried to look at Quantum's take since Sunday and nobody has it listed. Was it pulled already?

Looks like it was down to weekend showings only, as was CR for the final month of its run. Mind you, CR had another month to go before it reached that point.

[LilleOSC]

So, it is back to the drawing board for EON, but their one prized asset at the moment is Craig.

Right now, I'd still take QoS over anything from Brozza or Moore, but if Bond 23 ends up worse than QoS, or worse still, being like one of Brozza's movies, I think it'll be the end of the franchise for me.

QOS over Goldeneye? Really?

[stockslivevan]

Right now, I'd still take QoS over anything from Brozza or Moore, but if Bond 23 ends up worse than QoS, or worse still, being like one of Brozza's movies, I think it'll be the end of the franchise for me.

QOS over Goldeneye? Really?

Although I say marginally better since I rate them both 4 of 5. On my top 10 QOS is at #8 and GE is at #10.

[Terry]

Only Variety.com is showing it's daily meager take, at around $320,000 per day. Eon desperately wants it to top CR to "claim" USA success but this is a pipe dream due to ticket prices being higher and more daily screenings than CR. By the way, Jeffrey Lyons, a NY film critic, liked Defiance as a war film, "despite Craig's Bela Legosi accent".

If you've seen Tomb Raider or Munich it's pretty obvious Craig is a tad ropey when it comes to accents.

[Terry]

So, it is back to the drawing board for EON, but their one prized asset at the moment is Craig.

Until the fickle public decides to hold him personally responsible for everything that was wrong with his movies, as they did Brosnan and (with slightly more justification) Moore.

...but if Bond 23 ends up worse than QoS

It would take some feat to make a Bond film worse than QoS but I'm sure Eon will venture forth and give it a good try.

[stockslivevan]

It would take some feat to make a Bond film worse than DAD

Quite right.