The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[derekpayne]

Whatever ever Spectre does at the Box Office , it does not change that what we have now, is not Bond. The DC character and these rebooted film styles are very much the dissilusioned  Matt Damon's  Bourne Identity, with an extra layer of grit added ( as "darker" is better now apparently when anything gets a cinema reboot) with varying sprinklings of Tom Cruise's MI stunts , presented on a MI6 back drop. Fine actually, if they called it a spin off , 007 has retired and this is a new character with his own style, 004 or 009 for example.  

But, James Bond 007,   this is not.

Eon have rebooted the series by remaking Bond in the style of current american action films , and ignoring what went before.

If you always loved James Bond,  be it Connery to Brosnan, then the DC era is not aimed at you. 

If you were never really into any Bond,  but love an American action blockbuster, the DC reboots are written for you. 

 Like many, I wait in increasingly diminishing hope of  Bond  21 ever really being made. 

[Omega]

Moonraker got it's fair share of bad reviews, yet, it was the most successful film in the Roger Moore series. I can't think of any reason why Spectre couldn't be Daniel Craig's most successful in the series.

I can think of reasons why Spectre won't be Craig's most successful in the series. First of, for that to happen, the film has to make more than $1 billion to blow away Skyfall. Since it was out of control at a production cost of around $300 million to $350 million (without marketing costs), a billion alone (as many here pointed out) will just break even. Of course, no business seeks to "break even." You can bet all those less than brilliant studio executives with their PowerPoint slides full of bar graphs and bean-counter percentages won't be longing to break even. So for a substantial profit, the film has to rake in at least $2 billion worldwide. We'll see.

As for Moonraker, I'm old enough to tell you first hand that, yeah, it got bad reviews. But the film was a lighthearted romp, and I remember audiences in the theater cheering and laughing at the humor. Even though it's outrageous, there's a sincerity to it--it has no cheap stunt where they unveil at the end that Drax (for example) is Bond's grandfather or something. The plot itself, though outrageous, is still in that vein of the Bond-villain megalomaniac world domination routine. The way the Bond films were at that time, in the late 70s, audiences were accustomed to that Moore style of a Bond film. Moonraker, for all it's flaws, is light entertainment that appealed to the average movie-goer. Now look at AVTAK. that film got bad reviews and didn't do the same numbers as, say, Octopussy. It had a lousy story that just didn't click with audiences. I was living in the Bay Area at the time and I remember how audiences booed and hissed at the screen when Zorin revealed his plan to wipe out Silicon Valley. It was such a ridiculous idea, the locals obviously didn't buy the idea, and eventually the film just didn't catch on. Based on how Spectre is tracking in terms of reaction on sites like metacritic and RT, it looks like the same thing is happening. But we'll see, especially when it opens here next week in the USA.

moonraker also had the Star Wars excitement it feed off of


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[Omega]

Whatever ever Spectre does at the Box Office , it does not change that what we have now, is not Bond. The DC character and these rebooted film styles are very much the dissilusioned  Matt Damon's  Bourne Identity, with an extra layer of grit added ( as "darker" is better now apparently when anything gets a cinema reboot) with varying sprinklings of Tom Cruise's MI stunts , presented on a MI6 back drop. Fine actually, if they called it a spin off , 007 has retired and this is a new character with his own style, 004 or 009 for example.  

But, James Bond 007,   this is not.

Eon have rebooted the series by remaking Bond in the style of current american action films , and ignoring what went before.

If you always loved James Bond,  be it Connery to Brosnan, then the DC era is not aimed at you. 

If you were never really into any Bond,  but love an American action blockbuster, the DC reboots are written for you. 

 Like many, I wait in increasingly diminishing hope of  Bond  21 ever really being made. 

well said!


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[bjmdds]

It's now 7.8 on IMBD. One of their reviewers wrote this: 'But as a Bond movie, it under delivered and the franchise has, in my opinion, hit a brick wall. Bond is M.I.A

Action Movie = 7/10 but 6/10 because of the length . . Bond Movie 3/10'

[Veronica]

I personally don't care much about Bond film ratings, especially as a fan of Roger Moore, since his films get a lot of unfair criticism from the Bond snobs and the cool kids. With all the garbage that occurs on these sites, especially IMDb, it's hard to take them seriously. But some people do, and already I've seen some of the Craig fans panicking about the current drop in Spectre's rating. When the dust finally settles, Spectre might just sit at an overall average rating. The film seems to be causing split opinions due to it trying to satisfy fans of the classic and reboot style of Bond.

My experience in general is that the movies that get mighty praise from critics do not thrill me.
And there are movies that didn't go so well with the critics but I liked them.
It's ridiculous. Seems to me that nowdays anything that is "darker" and "more serious" gets better critics. I mean when was the last time when you heard a critic that said a comedy is one of the best movies of they year?
I'm still not sute whether critics truly buy this reboot thig or are they simply getting a nice paycheck for saying how this is "best Bond ever".

[bjmdds]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... qMJ9OGBSv4[/video]

[bjmdds]

For some reason Mendes cut the above Cr-egg scene from his ECT-TRE film, probably because it's too close to his true persona

[Alessandra]

I'm curious to understand why you deem White's scenes one of the best in the movie. I found that absolutely ridiculous and preposterous. A soap opera cliché exploited to desperately try to make sense of a nonsensical movie and of a group of disjointed and nonsensical movies that Craig did altogether.

I haven't posted anything about Mr White. You're mistaking me for somebody else.

And do calm down a bit will you.

You didn't talk about Mr white and that's why I said EA at the beginning of the paragraph . That means English Agent. LOL. And thank you, I do NOT need to calm down but maybe paying attention helps! LOL

If you want to comment about what English Agent said you should quote him, or at least write a separate post to him.

That's how you communicate on an internet-forum.

Excuse me? You think you're going to teach me how to communicate on internet forums in general, something I've been doing for decades, and on an internet forum I've been a member of for quite a while? No, you don't make separate posts because that's double posting and it is to be avoided. I said EA at the beginning of a separate paragraph, you not paying attention is on YOU not on me. Now move on and don't ever try to police me again. That's how we communicate on here.

Whatever ever Spectre does at the Box Office , it does not change that what we have now, is not Bond. The DC character and these rebooted film styles are very much the dissilusioned Matt Damon's Bourne Identity, with an extra layer of grit added ( as "darker" is better now apparently when anything gets a cinema reboot) with varying sprinklings of Tom Cruise's MI stunts , presented on a MI6 back drop. Fine actually, if they called it a spin off , 007 has retired and this is a new character with his own style, 004 or 009 for example.

But, James Bond 007, this is not.

Eon have rebooted the series by remaking Bond in the style of current american action films , and ignoring what went before.

If you always loved James Bond, be it Connery to Brosnan, then the DC era is not aimed at you.

If you were never really into any Bond, but love an American action blockbuster, the DC reboots are written for you.

Like many, I wait in increasingly diminishing hope of Bond 21 ever really being made.

well said!


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Perfectly stated.

[bjmdds]

Deadline.com's Anita Busch and Mike Fleming Jr---October 30, 2015 8:10am---A source sighted Warner Bros chief Kevin Tsujihara at the Montage Hotel recently with Gary Barber, the point person at MGM whose job it is to figure out the distribution future of 007 for MGM and Danjaq producers Michael Wilson and Barbara Broccoli. According to our source, the chatter seemed more intense than a meet and greet. It looked like they were throwing around numbers. Not surprisingly, Warner Bros has been oft mentioned as the most aggressive in this hunt. What’s odd about this is that nobody is saying that Sony hasn’t done a fine job in marketing and releasing the Bond films. But the last deal was made by Amy Pascal, and she is no longer in charge. The new guy in the seat, Tom Rothman, is known from his days running Fox as a tough, bottom-line-minded executive who most feel would walk away from a deal that gave the studio market share at the expense of profit. Indeed, some say that at Pascal’s urging, Sony gave up too much the last time around to keep 007 in the fold. The Wall Street Journal rifled through those hacked Sony documents and pried out a memo that underscores the troubling risk-reward disparity. According to WSJ, co-financing and marketing and releasing Skyfall brought Sony $57 million on a film that grossed $1.1 billion globally. MGM, in turn, made $175 million, while Danjaq made $109 million. And that doesn’t factor in all the other things Sony gave up and the movies like the 21 Jump Street franchise that MGM was kissed into when the last re-up deal was made. Some would consider the math on this to be on par with the old first-dollar gross deal scenarios which became toxic to studios when owners like Sumner Redstone realized that a star like Tom Cruise had earned $50 million on a Mission: Impossible movie through first-dollar gross participation before Paramount — which financed the whole film –had even recouped its outlay. So much is up in the air right now on 007. First off, the odds are against Craig and Mendes returning for another go, which would mean starting again with a new actor. Here’s what we hear. 007 rights gatekeepers Barber, and Wilson and Broccoli, will wait until Spectre plays around the world and accumulates an ungodly global gross that will only strengthen their leverage. And then, early next year, they will make the best deal. If that means bidding farewell to Sony, so be it.

[Omega]

Wait a minute Sony mgm eon only made $300 million off a billion dollar bo?!!


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[Count_Lippe]

Excuse me? You think you're going to teach me how to communicate on internet forums in general, something I've been doing for decades, and on an internet forum I've been a member of for quite a while? No, you don't make separate posts because that's double posting and it is to be avoided. I said EA at the beginning of a separate paragraph, you not paying attention is on YOU not on me. Now move on and don't ever try to police me again. That's how we communicate on here.

Don't be silly, I've been a member here a long time as well.

[English Agent]

Wait a minute Sony mgm eon only made $300 million off a billion dollar bo?!!

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Don't forget 'Omega'.........the studio gets, as a very rough guide 50% of the BO take in North America, 40% in the majority of International markets, except China where the studio gets back only 25%.................then i guess there are all sorts of taxes, and expenses the studio has to pay.

[Alessandra]

Deadline.com's Anita Busch and Mike Fleming Jr---October 30, 2015 8:10am---A source sighted Warner Bros chief Kevin Tsujihara at the Montage Hotel recently with Gary Barber, the point person at MGM whose job it is to figure out the distribution future of 007 for MGM and Danjaq producers Michael Wilson and Barbara Broccoli. According to our source, the chatter seemed more intense than a meet and greet. It looked like they were throwing around numbers. Not surprisingly, Warner Bros has been oft mentioned as the most aggressive in this hunt. What’s odd about this is that nobody is saying that Sony hasn’t done a fine job in marketing and releasing the Bond films. But the last deal was made by Amy Pascal, and she is no longer in charge. The new guy in the seat, Tom Rothman, is known from his days running Fox as a tough, bottom-line-minded executive who most feel would walk away from a deal that gave the studio market share at the expense of profit. Indeed, some say that at Pascal’s urging, Sony gave up too much the last time around to keep 007 in the fold. The Wall Street Journal rifled through those hacked Sony documents and pried out a memo that underscores the troubling risk-reward disparity. According to WSJ, co-financing and marketing and releasing Skyfall brought Sony $57 million on a film that grossed $1.1 billion globally. MGM, in turn, made $175 million, while Danjaq made $109 million. And that doesn’t factor in all the other things Sony gave up and the movies like the 21 Jump Street franchise that MGM was kissed into when the last re-up deal was made. Some would consider the math on this to be on par with the old first-dollar gross deal scenarios which became toxic to studios when owners like Sumner Redstone realized that a star like Tom Cruise had earned $50 million on a Mission: Impossible movie through first-dollar gross participation before Paramount — which financed the whole film –had even recouped its outlay. So much is up in the air right now on 007. First off, the odds are against Craig and Mendes returning for another go, which would mean starting again with a new actor. Here’s what we hear. 007 rights gatekeepers Barber, and Wilson and Broccoli, will wait until Spectre plays around the world and accumulates an ungodly global gross that will only strengthen their leverage. And then, early next year, they will make the best deal. If that means bidding farewell to Sony, so be it.

Hmm. The news is good, especially the new actor part, and I seriously hope WB gets it because well... they already have rights and deals for OTHER franchises that include certain men I favor as new James Bond. Hello, Henry.

Wait a minute Sony mgm eon only made $300 million off a billion dollar bo?!!

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Don't forget 'Omega'.........the studio gets, as a very rough guide 50% of the BO take in North America, 40% in the majority of International markets, except China where the studio gets back only 25%.................then i guess there are all sorts of taxes, and expenses the studio has to pay.

Yeah, we've discussed this in detail in the past, and Q and I had explained the various details. The profits are divided between studio, distributor and theaters. The studio gets way less than 50% of the gross. For a movie to be profitable, it needs to make at LEAST three times the costs. Because between subdivision of profits and taxes, most of it vanishes. So yeah... it's perfectly normal that they made a mere 300 mln out of a billion dollar BO. IN fact Harry Potter when they passed the 1 bln globally, was still a loss for the studio financially. It took time and DVD and all the other sales, too, to make up for it.

People see big box office numbers and think "oh the studio is going to make a lot of money" but that's not the case. Bond has been particularly mismanaged so their profit margin has been worse than what it was for others.

And Count_Lippe: Excellent then don't be silly yourself, pay attention to what you read, and never again dare tell me to "calm down" or how to post.

[bjmdds]

I am glad that was cleared up and we again have detente here..........Variety: The film is on pace to make $80 million when it debuts in the U.S. next weekend in roughly 3,500 theaters, according to industry tracking. And that’s just a fraction of the riches that that distributor Sony and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer will be raking in. A massive global launch is being planned that will see “Spectre” kick off in more than 60 foreign markets, including much of Latin America, Asia, and Europe. It opens in China the following week. On the stateside front, Sony is being more conservative, with sources saying the studio would be happy with an opening in the mid-$60 million range. That would trail the $88.4 million debut of the previous entry in the series, 2012’s “Skyfall,” but that picture had its opening weekend largely to itself, with no other major wide releases. In contrast, “Spectre” goes head to head with Fox’s “The Peanuts Movie,” which is tracking to do $40 million or more. The competition could cut into “Spectre’s” opening haul.

[bjmdds]

Broccoli is the undisputed woman behind James Bond, and it all began by being a daddy's girl.

"I just wanted to be with my father as much as possible," said Broccoli, who started her career at age 17, as a production assistant on The Spy Who Loved Me.

"Even before that I was always trying to be his secretary, taking his messages. Whenever I wasn't at school I'd go to the office with him. He was very generous with his knowledge, and just sort of let me into his world."

That meant becoming close friends with all the Bonds, even having a few innocent childhood crushes on 007s. "But they were all like uncles, part of the family," she said, noting that growing up always "felt normal." As a result, Broccoli isn't certain when she became aware of the franchise's cultural impact.

"I suppose it was when we would bring friends home, and they would go: 'Oh, my god, that's Roger Moore.' Or you go to school and someone asks what your parents do. You start to find out because your friends are really amazed at your lifestyle.

"We sort of tried to play it down. But we certainly had fun birthday parties."

[Omega]

Wait a minute Sony mgm eon only made $300 million off a billion dollar bo?!!

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Don't forget 'Omega'.........the studio gets, as a very rough guide 50% of the BO take in North America, 40% in the majority of International markets, except China where the studio gets back only 25%.................then i guess there are all sorts of taxes, and expenses the studio has to pay.

I'm familiar with it but out of a billion ?

The Chinese last I heard had not payed the money owed to Hollywood.

Ea you went to China right? What were the movie theatres like?


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[shaken not stirred]

My brother got back from seeing spectre a few hours ago (said it was very underwhelming).

[English Agent]

Wait a minute Sony mgm eon only made $300 million off a billion dollar bo?!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't forget 'Omega'.........the studio gets, as a very rough guide 50% of the BO take in North America, 40% in the majority of International markets, except China where the studio gets back only 25%.................then i guess there are all sorts of taxes, and expenses the studio has to pay.

I'm familiar with it but out of a billion ?

The Chinese last I heard had not payed the money owed to Hollywood.

Ea you went to China right? What were the movie theatres like?

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Yes.....i did go to China a couple of years ago, and i learnt to speak a few basic phrases.......like do you speak English .......and was quite surprised at the number of people who did speak to me in English. They are a very highly educated people.
Did go pass a Chinese cinema one day, and thought shall i go in......but then i thought whats the point as i wouldn't understand a bleedin word of the film!

I did read an article today, saying that China is building a lot of IMAX screens.

Spectre is playing in China from the 13th Nov, which is a surprise, as its only a week after the films worldwide rollout.
Will be interesting to see what the Chinese make of Spectre!
As usual the Japanese are the last to get to see the film, but instead of normally being about 3 months behind everyone else, they get to see the film on the 4th Dec.

[bjmdds]

FBF has disappeared since ECT-TRE opened in the UK. I hope Broccoli did not get a hold of him knowing he's on to her tricks to up the box office totals.

[English Agent]

FBF has disappeared since ECT-TRE opened in the UK. I hope Broccoli did not get a hold of him knowing he's on to her tricks to up the box office totals.

I noticed that FBF had suddenly stopped posting as well ...maybe he's hiding, so he doesn't have to hear anything about 'SPECTRE'...oops i mean 'ECT-TRE'