Fleming material still unused for Bond 23

[The Sweeney]

As Bond 23 approaches, wouldn't it be nice if EON stop pretending that there is no material left to use from Fleming, and do the right thing.
This topic has been kicked around to death. But for one last time I'll repeat the decent Fleming material still untapped....

MR - even though MR and DAD borrowed loosely from it.

DAF - most of the novel didn't end up on screen. The film loosely borrowed from it.

TSWLM - the novel in its entirety is untapped. Viv Michele would make a great heroine, and Sluggsy and Horror are suitably nasty hoods. The whole final part at the motel would translate very well under Craig's Bond.

YOLT - the novel in its entirety didn't translate to screen. Other than Bond chasing Blofeld and based in Japan, the film bears no resemblance to the novel whatsoever.

TMWTGG - again, the novel in its entirety didn't get used. The film loosely borrows from it with Scaramanga's background, and LTK loosely borrows from it with Bond going undercover, but other than that, there are some real gems again in this novel to still be used (especially the brainwashed Bond trying to kill M opening).

There is enough there easily for 1 movie, maybe even 2. Yet EON keep insisting all the Fleming material has been used up, which makes you wonder whether they've even bothered to read all the Bond novels properly.....

[Kristatos]

Plus Fleming left a notebook full of unused ideas after he died (one of which I nabbed for my Risico fanfic).

[Blowfeld]

Ian denied them the rights for a TSWLM translation. I doubt it will ever happen.

What about LALD?

[katied]

The problem with the "Bond trying to kill M" thing is, if they do it wrong, it has the potential to be really cheesy.So,a vote against from me, I'm afraid.

[The Sweeney]

Ian denied them the rights for a TSWLM translation. I doubt it will ever happen.

What about LALD?

But Fleming is dead now, and I'm sure EON could pull out the stops to get the rights if they needed to.

LALD has been exhausted to death over 3 movies - LALD, FYEO and LTK. There is no material left from that novel.

[The Sweeney]

The problem with the "Bond trying to kill M" thing is, if they do it wrong, it has the potential to be really cheesy.So,a vote against from me, I'm afraid.

But they did many things wrong in QoS without copying Fleming. At least if they start to go back to his material, the chances are it may be ok. And Bond killing M would be done in the gritty Craig style, not the Brozza cheesy style.

[katied]

^As long as the dastardly Broccowilsons are in charge, it'll probably be cheesy.

[The Sweeney]

^As long as the dastardly Broccowilsons are in charge, it'll probably be cheesy.

No. There were many things wrong with QoS, but being cheesy was not one of them

Bad script, bad direction, bad editing, etc. yes (and bad Bond....depending on your viewpoint... )

But QoS was not exactly cheesy. Had you said this back in the Brozza era I would agree with you, but not now. Babs and co. have managed to stop Bond films being cheesy, the one success they have pulled off, but a whole lot of other problems have now replaced it.

[katied]

Eh, if they DO do the Bond trying to kill M thing, trust me... it'll be crap. The barrel has been scraped.

[The Sweeney]

Eh, if they DO do the Bond trying to kill M thing, trust me... it'll be crap. The barrel has been scraped.

Depends how they do it. If it's done the way Fleming envisioned (an amnesia ridden Bond disappearing, resurfacing a year later, brainwashed to kill M) then it would be brilliant. The opening to TMWTGG was one of Fleming's greatest scenes he wrote.

If however, they do a half-ass attempt, mixing it with P&W's usual crap, then you are probably right...it will be crap.

[katied]

My money is on the Purvis and Wade, dumbed up for '00's audiences(if they do it at all)


Besides,the amnesia thing will get comparisons with Bourne.

[The Sweeney]

Besides,the amnesia thing will get comparisons with Bourne.

There is that danger, but I personally couldn't care less about that. Fleming wrote the story first, not Ludlum.

[katied]

Besides,the amnesia thing will get comparisons with Bourne.

There is that danger, but I personally couldn't care less about that. Fleming wrote the story first, not Ludlum.

True,but audiences still will make comparisons.Anyways, as long as Babs and Mikey are running things we'd get a dumbed down version of the amnesia thing.Which is a shame.In the right hands, it *could* work.

[John Drake]

As Bond 23 approaches, wouldn't it be nice if EON stop pretending that there is no material left to use from Fleming, and do the right thing.
This topic has been kicked around to death. But for one last time I'll repeat the decent Fleming material still untapped....

MR - even though MR and DAD borrowed loosely from it.

DAF - most of the novel didn't end up on screen. The film loosely borrowed from it.

TSWLM - the novel in its entirety is untapped. Viv Michele would make a great heroine, and Sluggsy and Horror are suitably nasty hoods. The whole final part at the motel would translate very well under Craig's Bond.

YOLT - the novel in its entirety didn't translate to screen. Other than Bond chasing Blofeld and based in Japan, the film bears no resemblance to the novel whatsoever.

TMWTGG - again, the novel in its entirety didn't get used. The film loosely borrows from it with Scaramanga's background, and LTK loosely borrows from it with Bond going undercover, but other than that, there are some real gems again in this novel to still be used (especially the brainwashed Bond trying to kill M opening).

There is enough there easily for 1 movie, maybe even 2. Yet EON keep insisting all the Fleming material has been used up, which makes you wonder whether they've even bothered to read all the Bond novels properly.....

There is some debate surrounding TMWTGG as to how much Fleming actually wrote isn't there? And on the topic of Kingsley Amis, how about a film version of Colonel Sun? I like TSWLM (novel) more than some people but it would be so outside of what people expect from a James Bond film if adapted faithfully.

[Kristatos]

There is some debate surrounding TMWTGG as to how much Fleming actually wrote isn't there? And on the topic of Kingsley Amis, how about a film version of Colonel Sun?

I don't think EON owns the rights to the non-Fleming Bond novels and short stories, though there are those who say that TSWLM (film) bears more than a passing resemblance to the plot of Colonel Sun anyway.

[Blowfeld]

There is some debate surrounding TMWTGG as to how much Fleming actually wrote isn't there? And on the topic of Kingsley Amis, how about a film version of Colonel Sun? I like TSWLM (novel) more than some people but it would be so outside of what people expect from a James Bond film if adapted faithfully.

I recently reread TMWTGG and some of the writing style struck me as completly unlike Ian's earlier work. There may be a lot more too this than I previously thought.

Possibly Kingsley Amis wrote it but it was based on Ian's notes or ideas already outlined. However if not and TMWTGG was a product of Kingsley's imagination then it is a crime not to acknowledge it because in my opinion YOLT was a perfect tome to end Ian's 007 on.

[The Sweeney]

There is some debate surrounding TMWTGG as to how much Fleming actually wrote isn't there? And on the topic of Kingsley Amis, how about a film version of Colonel Sun? I like TSWLM (novel) more than some people but it would be so outside of what people expect from a James Bond film if adapted faithfully.

I recently reread TMWTGG and some of the writing style struck me as completly unlike Ian's earlier work. There may be a lot more too this than I previously thought.

Possibly Kingsley Amis wrote it but it was based on Ian's notes or ideas already outlined. However if not and TMWTGG was a product of Kingsley's imagination then it is a crime not to acknowledge it because in my opinion YOLT was a perfect tome to end Ian's 007 on.

It's not. It was written by Fleming, but only in first draft form. Normally he would have gone back and re-written (or polished his novels with a second draft, but sadly he didn't live long enough to get the chance.

There is rumours that Amis did the polishing to Fleming's novel, but I think even these have been dismissed since. TMWTGG has the stamp of Fleming all over it, and could have been one of his finest novels had he lived long enough to polish it properly.

As it stands now, it's still one of my favourites.

[Blowfeld]

I think if Ian had lived to finished TMWTGG properly I might have enjoyed it better. It is lacking so many of his touches. I would describe it as dry read. For me YOLT was a beautiful ending for Bond.

I seem to recall a copy of Col Sun I had saying something about TMWGG being unfinished at the time of Ian's death

[The Sweeney]

I think if Ian had lived to finished TMWTGG properly I might have enjoyed it better. It is lacking so many of his touches. I would describe it as dry read. For me YOLT was a beautiful ending for Bond.

I seem to recall a copy of Col Sun I had saying something about TMWGG being unfinished at the time of Ian's death

I don't agree with YOLT being the perfect ending. It left the story on a cliffhanger, the same way it ended in FRWL. We needed TMWTGG to find out what happened to Bond.

I would rate TMWTGG as high as number 2 in my rankings, just below OHMSS. I love the novel, even though it is sketchy in parts (due to Fleming departing before he could polish it). I think it has a brilliant, gripping opening, the villain is superb, I love Bond being undercover getting close to his target, and the ending on the train and in the magrove swamps is totally compelling. The last chapter also ends the novels perfectly...almost like Fleming knew this would be his last one. A great ending to the Bond cannon. If Fleming had time to polish it, TMWTGG could easily be my favourite novel.

And you are probably right about reading in Col Sun that TMWTGG was unfinished at the time of his death. Like I said earlier, it was in first draft form only. Fleming never had time to polish it properly. This is officially publicised in the 2 Fleming biographies I have.

[FormerBondFan]

I wish Fleming is still around. EON would have good stories to tell on screen.