The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[Pluto007]

I honestly don’t mind the gaps. There are sixty years of films for me to enjoy. I love dipping back to Fleming. The new film will come when it comes, and even those that hate the gaps between films will be there on the first day, in most cases.
Eon knows this.
They’re not going to lose anyone due to gaps between the last film and the new one.
And keep in mind that in the 80s, Bond production values were certainly straining, they were making less at the box office generally, and especially when going against the freshness of Batman, Indy, Lethal Weapon and Die Hard, they were flailing.

Like it or not, Bond is a big event film release now. When they do start the new era (and I’m on record as saying the next film will be released in Oct/Nov of ‘27 (the same six year gap between LTK and GE)), following films will be released in three to four year gaps.

EoN isn’t MCU (thank god), or Disney or DC where they’ve got all this material to adapt with several different teams of writing rooms (of four to six writer), coming up with new stories every year— also, thank god for that as that model is now collapsing on itself, isn’t it? They over saturated the market and now they’re suffering.

I’d much rather have the audience starving for Bond, rather than being too full of Bond that they’re sick of the character.

By the time the next film is released, it’ll be a hit, in part, because of the wait. And then add on top of that: a new Bond actor brings its own excitement. Likely a new supporting cast as well.

From an industry perspective: there’s absolutely no need to rush the next James Bond film. It hurts die hard fans, yes. But the general movie going public (who these films are made for, or else Bond would have been niche long ago, then faded to an end), isn’t wondering about what’s happening in the 007 universe.

But when the new teaser arrives in two and a half years, that worldwide general audience will get a nice little jolt, and anticipation will build until its release.

Eon knows this. Every producer worth his or her salt knows this.

There’s zero need to get the next production going sooner. Just by existing, Bond generates capital every time Amazon/MGM licence the IP. New novels are coming out and a new video game is on the horizon….

The IP is healthy.

And I do empathize with all Bond fans who feel each day passing. But while this truth exists, another does simultaneously: the world isn’t begging for a new Bond film quite yet.

All will return one day. And we will all likely be there on the first day, first show.

[Omega]

I’m not sure the brand is all that healthy, in the past a new bond actors first movie was an event to bring the fans back in who might have strayed. And audiences a chance to forgive the past missteps in the series,

It might be refreshing to audiences in general to bring back bond. We’ve seen other brands use the lack of new content to fuel demand.
The way Babs ended bond, might be all the audience needs. The nostalgia, or the audience driven by nostalgia might not be as great as we think.

Judging by the younger generation in our family Bond is not the big deal it was to me and my brothers or our friends growing up. And think back we had new content like video games, books and other things to give us something to talk about. We’d watch bond marathons and all kinds of stuff.

I realize that’s what makes us fans and not ordinary movie goers. Imho the atmosphere today surrounding bond is different, it feels like an apathy towards the series in general. What the younger generation is interested it’s a lot of other series and games.

I really don’t think the literary bond publication has much impact today despite attempt to reinvigorate it with different authors, and new takes on it.

Maybe a build run up by people who know what they are doing promoting bond, decent story and director, can reinvigorate the brand. I don’t think bond needs to be a well known actor to work. I also don’t think there are enough of us fans to fuel the brand onward and the younger generation attention span is such a new bond movie 20 years after Craig was cast or CR released will it not have the impact it would have just a decade ago.

I think the series was badly mismanaged since 2012. To the extent bond isn’t a real presence in the social consciousness/popular culture it once was.
Hope to be proven wrong but a lot of other series filled the niche Bond once had exclusively.


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[Pluto007]

I won’t disagree with anything you said Omega, but I will add that the upcoming younger generations are way different than us, period.

They have immediate access to so many things we didn’t.

And I can also add that the worldwide audience for James Bond thinks about it as much as they always have: rarely (outside of the 60s Bond-mania).

You may not like the direction EoN have gone in. I have my own personal issues, but generally speaking, from an industry perspective, it’s as strong as it has ever been since ‘95 (after a creative and financial dip in the 80s).

I wouldn’t worry. When the teaser arrives, you’ll see an uptick in Bond interest again (and even in these slow periods, there are Bond articles being written pretty much every day in Screenrant and Collider, et al. What other film series can boast the same? And which of these film series are 62 years old!!).

Eon, but especially the ppl they hire to promote their films, are very talented at marketing. They know how to do their jobs.

James Bond will return. The next film will explode. All is as fine as it’s ever been with the health of the series.

When the time is right, the cogs will start turning again, and Bond will be back in business.

[Omega]

I don’t have the faith eon can pull it off. The longer the wait the hard it will be for them to get up to speed. Now they could hire it all out and be fine. Imho there no good reason for the delays other than they (eon) don’t wanna work with Amazon.

As a brand maybe it’ll be enough of a drive to restart.


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[Pluto007]

I don’t have the faith eon can pull it off. The longer the wait the hard it will be for them to get up to speed. Now they could hire it all out and be fine. Imho there no good reason for the delays other than they (eon) don’t wanna work with Amazon.

As a brand maybe it’ll be enough of a drive to restart.


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Why don't you think they can pull off re-starting a new era, Omega?

[Omega]

I just don’t think Babs has the desire to put the effort in. Not at this point in her life. Her other projects tend to flame out.

As a production company EON is mediocre at best, studio partners like Sony (and mgm at much earlier points) helped push production.

Eon had non bond related picture deals they never made. I think they had two with Sony around the time of cr and QOS.

Now there is a younger generation at eon who should be ready to take the lead. Maybe they are ready and have the energy. Rumor was during the delay in 2011 I think mgw’s sons wanted to reinvent bond when they came back.

But if the stories that nothing is happening are true I m’d imagine it’s a much harder task to restart the eon machine.

Part to look forward to is if they can get it in gear the first movie of a new bond usually has production value and better story telling.

But their company is called Everything or Nothing for a reason.


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[dirtybenny]

I just don’t think Babs has the desire to put the effort in. Not at this point in her life. Her other projects tend to flame out.

As a production company EON is mediocre at best, studio partners like Sony (and mgm at much earlier points) helped push production.

Eon had non bond related picture deals they never made. I think they had two with Sony around the time of cr and QOS.

Now there is a younger generation at eon who should be ready to take the lead. Maybe they are ready and have the energy. Rumor was during the delay in 2011 I think mgw’s sons wanted to reinvent bond when they came back.

But if the stories that nothing is happening are true I m’d imagine it’s a much harder task to restart the eon machine.

Part to look forward to is if they can get it in gear the first movie of a new bond usually has production value and better story telling.

But their company is called Everything or Nothing for a reason.


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I whole heartedly agree! Babz just doesn't give a crap. If the next film is in fact coming out 3 years from now it had better be fantastic or the whole house of cards will come crashing down, Bond can't survive another Craig style era of maudlin melodrama, evil foster brothers, baby mamas and pointless suicide. Couple that with the fact Amazon has removed the semiannual Bond marathons from cable and the newer crop of fans who used to get introduced through them will dwindle.

Bond isn't as big a deal as they like to think, Star Wars (for better or worse) bests Bond 10 to 1 in subscribers across all social media. If Bond were so strong Skyfall's billion dollar take wouldn't be heralded so loudly, especial when you consider the shlock fest that is Fast And Furious scored TWO billion dollar films in the same time period.

[Pluto007]

I just don’t think Babs has the desire to put the effort in. Not at this point in her life. Her other projects tend to flame out.

As a production company EON is mediocre at best, studio partners like Sony (and mgm at much earlier points) helped push production.

Eon had non bond related picture deals they never made. I think they had two with Sony around the time of cr and QOS.

Now there is a younger generation at eon who should be ready to take the lead. Maybe they are ready and have the energy. Rumor was during the delay in 2011 I think mgw’s sons wanted to reinvent bond when they came back.

But if the stories that nothing is happening are true I m’d imagine it’s a much harder task to restart the eon machine.

Part to look forward to is if they can get it in gear the first movie of a new bond usually has production value and better story telling.

But their company is called Everything or Nothing for a reason.


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I whole heartedly agree! Babz just doesn't give a crap. If the next film is in fact coming out 3 years from now it had better be fantastic or the whole house of cards will come crashing down, Bond can't survive another Craig style era of maudlin melodrama, evil foster brothers, baby mamas and pointless suicide. Couple that with the fact Amazon has removed the semiannual Bond marathons from cable and the newer crop of fans who used to get introduced through them will dwindle.

Bond isn't as big a deal as they like to think, Star Wars (for better or worse) bests Bond 10 to 1 in subscribers across all social media. If Bond were so strong Skyfall's billion dollar take wouldn't be heralded so loudly, especial when you consider the shlock fest that is Fast And Furious scored TWO billion dollar films in the same time period.

I’m respectfully asking Benny, how have you come to the conclusion that BB doesn’t give a crap?

From an industry perspective there’s absolutely no need to run into the next Bond film, if they don’t have to. And they don’t have to. Outside of die hard fans, the world isn’t clamouring for another James Bond picture at the moment.

And EoN is very well aware of Bond’s standing in the worldwide box office, and that’s one of the reasons they don’t have to be like Star Wars and MCU, ramming home movie after movie until they saturate the market.
EoN knows what it’s doing with its IP. When it’s released, a teaser will blast into our consciousness. The general movie goers will be piqued. The posters will start showing up, and the machine will be rolling soon enough.

And Omega, because a film doesn’t see the light of day is not a fault of anyone. Everyday, development hell literally kills another five projects. Every day of every year. Thats not hyperbole.

I’m only replying from a film industry perspective, and not to be contrarian or to create anger.

[bjmdds]

Pluto, in Broccoli's universe, only Cr-egg can be Bond and can never be replaced. Do you TRULY believe if Cr-egg was still Bond this amount of neglect would be going on? NO WAY. She is not in any hurry because she is no longer as excited to continue with the franchise. The ONLY reason she stays on is to be considered a producer in Hollywood and win awards for it and to fit in with her peers. Bond is secondary to her now. If it wasn't, there would be action on another film already. 2021 was a delayed release date from 2018. She has done only ONE film since 2015, ONE. Nine years and 1 film is ridiculous for this franchise. Her heart just 'ain't' into it any longer.

[Pluto007]

Pluto, in Broccoli's universe, only Cr-egg can be Bond and can never be replaced. Do you TRULY believe if Cr-egg was still Bond this amount of neglect would be going on? NO WAY. She is not in any hurry because she is no longer as excited to continue with the franchise. The ONLY reason she stays on is to be considered a producer in Hollywood and win awards for it and to fit in with her peers. Bond is secondary to her now. If it wasn't, there would be action on another film already. 2021 was a delayed release date from 2018. She has done only ONE film since 2015, ONE. Nine years and 1 film is ridiculous for this franchise. Her heart just 'ain't' into it any longer.

With all respect, I don't know what Broccoli is thinking, because I am not her. I just try and answer from a film production perspective.

If Craig was still James Bond, would there be this pause? Quite possibly, yes. I mean there was three years between Skyfall and Spectre ( where Sony should have had the sense to say: we are delaying distribution of this film by one year as this script is NOT ready), and there would have been 4 years between Spectre and NTTD (but COVID extended that).

So there would be quite a pause if Craig was Bond, and now, there's a bigger pause because they're going to be recasting.

Why haven't they started then? My question is, why should they? There's zero demand. They have the luxury of time right now, and the global movie going audiences haven't yet grown impatient for another Bond picture.

Quite honestly, this pause is painful for fans of Bond, and no one else.

The IP still generates money with each time it's licensed. Gregg Wilson has been working closely on the videogame. More books are on the way (all of these things give me no joy as I own all the films, I don't play videogames, and no continuation novelist has written anything worthy of Fleming, IMO).

From an industry perspective EoN's actually making the right decision.

As for what's inside the producers head, their thoughts and all of that? I'm not a mind reader and guessing what's going on up in their private thoughts has no value to me personally, as I will never know the answers (and I don't want to know; I just care about production).

[Kristatos]

This argument assumes that waiting will increase anticipation. If, as you say, nobody is interested now, what makes you think that they will be more interested in 2027, or whenever the teaser drops?

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[Pluto007]

This argument assumes that waiting will increase anticipation. If, as you say, nobody is interested now, what makes you think that they will be more interested in 2027, or whenever the teaser drops?

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Because no one thinks about Bond films like we fans do.

In between DAD and CR, no one started talking about Bond again until the casting of Craig.

Then the chatter all went quiet again until the beach shots of Craig.

Quickly thereafter, came the trailers and then it seemed that the average moviegoers were on a heater for another Bond film.

Apart from the fans, and apart from articles that continue to be written about the character (mainly for the clicks that the fans will bring in), no one is talking about James Bond. Not in film circles. Not in the cinemas. Not really anywhere.

But as has been the cycle of Bond: once the new actor is cast, the buzz will increase outside of the fandom. Then when the trailer is released, that buzz will be blowing out ear drums.

This has been the cycle of James Bond for decades! Even when I was a kid, it’d be me wanting the next Bond films. My friends didn’t give two cents *until* the posters started to show up at the local cinemas, and until the film got a release.

This isn’t about to change. The cycle of James Bond going away into shorter or longer hibernations doesn’t really produce a positive or negative feedback, because it’s always been thus. When he returns, the heat really increases. It has its run in theatres, then returns to hibernate again.

[dirtybenny]

I’m respectfully asking Benny, how have you come to the conclusion that BB doesn’t give a crap?

And I have to respectfully ask, how have you come to the conclusion that she does? Other than the fact you're in the industry and admit to clamoring for the chance to work for them, perhaps you're a bit too close to the system.

My conclusion is based on everything I've seen from her over these past two decades of really studying the EON process coupled with the quality of the films over that time. Reading articles from EON themselves detailing how once it's decided to finally crap out a film they gather round the old table and spitball ideas to for a loose knit skeleton upon which they can hang some dialogue they write as they film the bloody thing! I don't know, if it were me and sheparding one film franchise was all I had to do, I'd have a team of writers keeping 2-3 scripts going in the interim between films and picking the very best one. Hell she couldn't even be bothered to come up with a title for the last one until they were halfway through filming!

And EoN is very well aware of Bond’s standing in the worldwide box office, and that’s one of the reasons they don’t have to be like Star Wars and MCU, ramming home movie after movie until they saturate the market.
EoN knows what it’s doing with its IP. When it’s released, a teaser will blast into our consciousness. The general movie goers will be piqued. The posters will start showing up, and the machine will be rolling soon enough.

You're acting as if they are seeking quality over quantity, nothing EON has put out has been any better or less harmful to brand than anything Lucasfilm has done in the same timeframe only less of it.

Because no one thinks about Bond films like we fans do.

Thank you for making my point for me and this is why Bond will always be a mid-tier franchise under Babz.

I’m only replying from a film industry perspective, and not to be contrarian or to create anger.

Well you're doing a real bang up job of it old boy! Which begs the question what are you doing here? You had to have seen we're a bunch of cynical malcontents, what made you feel the compulsion, now of all times when nothing is going on in the series, to crawl up from the ether and give us your unsolicited "industry perspective?" If that's how you want to spend your time, have at I suppose, but what are you getting out of this? Do you work for the Amazon/MGM P.R. machine perhaps?

[Pluto007]

“And I have to respectfully ask, how have you come to the conclusion that she does?”

I didn’t say that though. I didn’t come to that conclusion, nor stated this.

“Other than the fact you're in the industry and admit to clamoring for the chance to work for them, perhaps you're a bit too close to the system.”

I’d never want to make a Bond film. I said I’d certainly want to work with them, but not on Bond.

“ You're acting as if they are seeking quality over quantity, nothing EON has put out has been any better or less harmful to brand than anything Lucasfilm has done in the same timeframe only less of it”

Your opinion. I haven’t stated mine. You made assumptions over what I have said. So…

“ Well you're doing a real bang up job of it old boy! Which begs the question what are you doing here? You had to have seen we're a bunch of cynical malcontents, what made you feel the compulsion, now of all times when nothing is going on in the series, to crawl up from the ether and give us your unsolicited "industry perspective?" If that's how you want to spend your time, have at I suppose, but what are you getting out of this? Do you work for the Amazon/MGM P.R. machine perhaps?”

I don’t understand your point. You’re coming off as aggressive.I have had small exchanges with Kristatos and Moneypenny, and Omega, and I don’t think they responded to me in this manner, nor me to them.

Should I get riled up now? Because I’m not.

No I don’t work for Amazon.

I stated before, when I first joined: I am interested in chatting all things Bond. I have a perspective, yes, but I’m not here to cause issues. If you think I’ve overstayed my welcome, or that I’ve been rude or I’ve tried to instigate a virtual battle, please say so. And I suppose have me banned.

But I don’t think I’ve done any such thing.

I respectfully disagree with most of what you said. But these are your opinions, and I have absolutely no right to assault them. I just wish you wouldn’t put words in my mouth, or make assumption about what I’m saying, because what I post is what I think— with no hidden meanings or hidden agenda.

Is this being fair?

[dirtybenny]

I'm not here to ban or rile you up, though I will say flat out you rub me the wrong way. There is something extremely disingenuous about you, the way you "white knight" and carry water for EON. Those are the only real interactions I've seen from you. The "assumptions" I'm making about your arguments are based entirely on your own words on the subjects at hand and for you to backtrack and claim I'm "putting words in your mouth" is precisely the disingenuousness of which I speak. I haven't quite figured out your game yet, but if you want to keep on playing it go right ahead, I won't stop you.

[bjmdds]

Pluto, you don't think the worldwide audiences are impatient for a new Bond by now? What?! All you read on the internet is when will the next Bond be chosen already. It is just the CONTRARY. People are FED UP with this waiting game. At some point human nature will take over and say the 'heck with the franchise already' and THEN there will be a real issue of no interest. EON is a joke under Broccoli and she should vacate the premises already and get lost.

[Pluto007]

I'm not here to ban or rile you up, though I will say flat out you rub me the wrong way. There is something extremely disingenuous about you, the way you "white knight" and carry water for EON. Those are the only real interactions I've seen from you. The "assumptions" I'm making about your arguments are based entirely on your own words on the subjects at hand and for you to backtrack and claim I'm "putting words in your mouth" is precisely the disingenuousness of which I speak. I haven't quite figured out your game yet, but if you want to keep on playing it go right ahead, I won't stop you.

Once again, these are your opinions. I can't actually make any kind of reply that would satisfy. You've created something, made a decision, and that's all there is to be said.

Pluto, you don't think the worldwide audiences are impatient for a new Bond by now? What?! All you read on the internet is when will the next Bond be chosen already. It is just the CONTRARY. People are FED UP with this waiting game. At some point human nature will take over and say the 'heck with the franchise already' and THEN there will be a real issue of no interest. EON is a joke under Broccoli and she should vacate the premises already and get lost.

I'm sorry, but the only people fed up with the pauses between Bond films, are Bond fans. No one outside of the fandom is feeling annoyed by the wait. There is a huge chasm between the passion of fandom, and the general worldwide movie goer. The ones that buy the majority tickets aren't people who read The Spy Command, and they won't start thinking about a new Bond, in earnest, until the teaser of the new film hits.

[Kristatos]

BJ is right, though, if nobody is thinking about the new Bond yet, then how do you explain the barrage of clickbait stories every time the bookies' odds change?

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[Pluto007]

BJ is right, though, if nobody is thinking about the new Bond yet, then how do you explain the barrage of clickbait stories every time the bookies' odds change?

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Clickbait brings the fans of a character— and this what media companies want: the clicks.

It’s us who have Bond news on our algorithm. Every morning any Bond tidbit comes through my feed.

But this same thing isn’t happening to the average Joe-moviegoer. No one thinks about James Bond 24-7 except people like us.

[Pluto007]

And Dirty Benny, I should say I don’t know why I may’ve rubbed you the wrong way, however, I’d be willing to have a further conversation with you.

Because this type of communication is difficult and anything can be read between the lines, I’d be happy to set a video call with you?

I could send you a zoom link. I think after speaking live to me, you’ll probably have your fears put to rest.

Let me know and we can arrange something today or tomorrow?