The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[Kristatos]

We are constantly bombarded with strange individuals who can't handle the fact we dislike the direction this series has taken over the past two decades.

Actually, I think it's the same strange individual, under a variety of aliases. He is more of a Daniel Craig fan than a Bond fan, and the knowledge that there might be people out there who don't like Craig as Bond seems to have driven him slightly round the twist.



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[Pluto007]

Yes, reading the behind the scenes story of Goldeneye, I was shocked to discover how close it came to not being greenlit. Even back then, market research showed younger viewers thinking of Bond films as something their dads watched (this was before the Nintendo game brought in a whole new generation of fans).

So, in spite of my harsh words about EON, I do have some sympathy for their plight. They were pretty savvy in recognising the vibe shift caused by The Bourne Identity and adjusting Casino Royale accordingly (though I don't believe a full reboot was necessary - Purvis and Wade have said that their first draft of the script was written under the assumption that it would be Pierce's fifth film, though it was always meant to be more down to earth after the excesses of DAD).

That was 20 years ago, and there doesn't seem to be any similar touchstone for the current zeitgeist, so no wonder they're flailing a bit. I just don't buy the argument that Barbara Broccoli is some kind of tactical genius who has a brilliant plan to retool the franchise for the modern era. I think she's as clueless as the rest of us.

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I don't actually think Broccoli knows where she's going next. Not just Broccoli, but their creative team.

The film industry is in utter disarray, and there's not one producer/executive that can predict what the landscape will look like next week, let alone, a year or two from now.

The Fall Guy gets excellent reviews, from audiences and critics, it BOMBS. Furiosa had a solid advertising campaign, and there was positive buzz leading into its release. It's another BOMB. Bad Boys 4, with an unpopular Will Smith KILLS, and now Smith has signed on for his next big screen sci Fi film. In and Out 2 KILLS.... It's an unpredictable rollercoaster. If you told anyone Ryan Gosling's Fall Guy was gonna be a huge bomb (at a massive financial loss), and Smith's BB4 was going to open with around $55 million, people would call you a d**n liar. Just a few weeks ago that'd seem impossible. But it happened.

I'd say where EON is being smart right now is by doing........ Nothing.

They need to watch this landscape play out, and as you rightly pointed out, Kristatos: there's no Bourne that EoN can lean into. There's nothing. There's no information on what audiences want. They certainly can't (and won't) do Craig 2.0. And in the film industry, if you go too far backwards, it's repetition and certain death at the box office- so trying to re-create one of the other era's is also off the table.

EoN has been generally good at giving us the familiar, with a twist (whether one likes the twist isn't the point- I certainly had issues with some of their twists); and they must provide the same.

Now giving us the familiar is what they'll do best. It's the twist that they're stuck at. What is it that modern audiences want out of a new Bond? What does the cinematic landscape tell us.

That's where they're stuck, methinks.

And Kater, I hear you. In my view, I don't consider any opinion unpopular. Life's too short, right? I dont have to agree, but I must try and respect all opinions, because they're real to that person!

[bjmdds]

Pluto, Broccoli has NO idea what to do because she has NO desire to do anything without Cr-egg! That is why she allowed the writers and Cr-egg to kill of his Bond. Do you like Aidan Turner as a Bond choice? Broccoli has had 5 years to sign him on and passed. Since 2015 there has been only ONE Bond film which is ridiculous.

[Kristatos]

Is Will Smith unpopular? I know he's not the box office juggernaut he once was, but I don't get the sense that people have actively turned against him. There was the controversy over him slapping Chris Rock at the Oscars, but that doesn't seem like a career killer.

The problem with the "wait and see" approach is that you could be waiting forever. The number one priority must surely be to cut budgets. NTTD had the lowest return on investment of all Bond films, barely scraping into the black.

Incidentally, the algorithm is getting out of hand. I hadn't even finished typing this reply before I got a push notification on my phone for a news story headlined "Will Smith to star in Resistor".

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[Pluto007]

Will Smith was poison after slap-gate. He's been banned by the Oscars for a decade. But in Hollywood, memories are short if you bring the bank-- it's a business of what have you done for me lately, and if BB4 failed, Smith would soon be doing low budget streaming films.

And yes, EON needs and will cut budgets. That's the easy part. But writing a story and taking a direction that will give the new actor, and the new era the best shot, isn't. A smaller budget doesn't guarantee a hit film, and my point about The Fall Guy and BB4 is part of this problem. One was supposed to be a guaranteed hit (the one with "hot" Gosling coming off of Barbie, his performance at the Oscars and his fanbase, and Emily Blunt coming off of Oppenheimer), but instead was a massive flop, and the film everyone was praying would break even, is gonna coast to a tidy profit.

As for Aidan Turner, he's a solid actor, handsome, but I'm not convinced he has the big screen pull and charisma to lead a new era. And this is part of the problem too. EON needs a man who has big d!CK swagger/big screen presence. I mean, talking about Gosling, if he wasn't Canadian, I'd say someone like this guy who's physical, but has a twinkle in his eye and is deft with humor, and oozes charisma on the screen, would be a great candidate. But, he's Canadian, and rules him out.

Their first step is writing a tight, thriller in the $185 million range, lock a top-notch director who comes from the thriller-action space, and then hold intense auditions to mine for the best man possible. But prior to all of this is figuring-out on the direction that will launch the new era in the most successful way.

[Kristatos]

One thing I do think they've got right is the decision to hire a slightly younger actor (they have said that the next Bond will be in his thirties). I think that probably goes for directors too. Bringing back Martin Campbell or whoever is not the answer, though I haven't seen enough recent action movies to offer any suggestions.

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[Pluto007]

I am fully in agreement about Campbell. He makes fine action fare for streaming, but is he still capable of running a crew of hundreds and a budget that is double or triple what he's been getting the last decade or so? At 80 plus years of age, I'm just not sure he's got the energy for these six month shoots (versus the couple months he's been doing as of late).

They need to find an energetic director, one who has vision and energy to launch the new era. It has to set itself apart from the last era, and do it with a bang. Going back to the well on Campbell wouldn't instill confidence.

But if I was to guess, Campbell's not on their list.

But this just goes to show the headache this is, and will be. You've been around for over 60 years, so where is our jumping off point? They can make a list of general "items" that are a must:

A charismatic lead who handles humour as well as action (no raised eyebrows, or terrible puns, something akin to Connery's dry approach);
He also has to be appealing/sexy;
The relationship with the Bond woman also has to be sexy, and sensually executed (no more Brosnan taking nibbles off of shoulders or cheesy moments like there was with Jinx). More of the sexiness that Bellucci brought. A real women, very sexy, she's desirable and has desires. And she's confident and sexual without crossing the line. Genuine sensuality.
Let's get back to the casino, the tux, and I'm assuming Aston isn't going anywhere, but I can almost, almost guarantee the DB-5 won't be making an appearance, at least in the first film of the new era. So, have Aston provide the sexiest new model.
What did most like about the last era when it came to action? Off hand the chase sequence in CR that took us all over a construction site, the stairwell fight scene (so more visceral action/violence), unarmed combat vs Slate in QOS, the Hinx fight in SPECTRE, the Marera fights/Aston chase sequence. These are successful action set pieces from the last era. The new era should look at those and the stunt crew should ask: how do we better? How do the action set pieces reveal character traits (for example with the Craig Era (whether one likes it or not), they were d**n clear to show us this is a man who literally runs through walls). So how can action in the new era reveal the character traits of this new Bond? Is he more suave and experienced? Is he reckless and the higher the risk, the more engaged he becomes?
But the most important thing is: who is the Big Bad in today's world, and how can this be used as a threat to the Bond universe? And will it be enough to attract and appeal to audiences on the east and west coast of America, as well as the fly-over parts of the country? This also has to appeal to audiences in the UK, India, China, across Europe, South America. What story is attractive and appealing and is near universal to put butts in seats??

Lots of questions.

And not a lot of answers.

[Kristatos]

I agree with most of this, and I would add that I would like Bond to actually look the part this time. Our critics like to reduce this to "blond hair", but it's more than that. There's a certain Bond look, and Craig doesn't have it IMO. Having said that, that's not my biggest objection to him. He's just not suave and sophisticated enough, coming across more like a nightclub bouncer than the gentleman spy of the earlier movies. People argue that it's closer to Fleming, but even if you accept that premise (and I don't), movie Bond is not the same as literary Bond. You often hear the fanboi calling for faithful adaptations of the novels, set during the Cold War, but I think that would have very limited appeal for Mr and Mrs Joe Q Multiplex. Even at the time, it took nearly a decade to bring Bond to the big screen, the main sticking point being his lack of humour. Movie Bond arguably owes more to Cary Grant's Roger Thornhill in North By Northwest than to Fleming.

My main objection to the Craig era, rather than Craig himself. is the introduction of soap opera elements like Brofeld. I hope the future brings a return to standalone stories. I think the failure of the most recent Mission: Impossible film, which was largely attributed to its having "Part One" in the title, might send out a signal that people no longer want to invest in continuing storylines.

In addition, I hope the "young, energetic" director is also a Bond fan. I believe Lee Tamahori was hired to bring a fresh energy to the series, but he clearly didn't understand Bond at all. He declared the casino scenes "boring", thought James Bond was a codename, and made decisions like using (bad) CGI for the surfing scene, when the stuntwork is a major part of the films' appeal.

[kater23]

On this we can agree: No more T*m*h*r*

[bjmdds]

Forget Aaron Taylor-Johnson, or other rumors including Leo Woodall, because the Skims founder, 43, is convinced she could ‘totally’ replace Daniel Craig.
The reality TV star made a genuine pitch to be the next James Bond in the latest episode of The Kardashians and said she ‘really loved’ the idea of joining the franchise. However, she admitted there was just one single obstacle blocking her route to 007 glory – her penchant for Botox.

[Kristatos]

Forget Aaron Taylor-Johnson, or other rumors including Leo Woodall, because the Skims founder, 43, is convinced she could ‘totally’ replace Daniel Craig.
The reality TV star made a genuine pitch to be the next James Bond in the latest episode of The Kardashians and said she ‘really loved’ the idea of joining the franchise. However, she admitted there was just one single obstacle blocking her route to 007 glory – her penchant for Botox.

Who is convinced?

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[Pluto007]

DAD was, for me, the biggest sin of the franchise. I can accept everything (I may not like but can accept) the continuity issues of say, Bond meeting Blofeld face to face in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE , and not recognizing him one film later.

I can accept (although hate), how Bond really doesn’t get proper closure and revenge on Blofeld and Bunt for killing Tracy (I know Steppat had passed by the time the next film went into principal, but the early series was obviously not afraid to recast (how many Blofelds did we have between ‘63 and ‘71?)).

I can accept (although strongly despise), Cubby wanting to go for John Gavin (and later querying a bunch of American stars, and actually going so far as to audition Brolin);

I lived through and survived the entire Brosnan era and have learned to co-exist with MGW’s brilliant idea of foster-brothering Franz and James.

But DAD breaks me.

[Kristatos]

I think of several films I'd place below DAD in my personal rankings. QOS is bottom of the pile for me, and DAF from the pre-Craig films. I agree with Mark Gatiss when he said that everything about DAF seems slightly "off". It's the weirdest of the Bond films, and not in a good way.

As for DAD, I normally don't like placing all the blame for a film's failure on one person, but reading about its production, everything that's wrong with the film really does seem to be Tamahori's fault. It's a shame, because there are some excellent scenes in there which made me think "if only the whole film could have been this good".

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[Pluto007]

I think of several films I'd place below DAD in my personal rankings. QOS is bottom of the pile for me, and DAF from the pre-Craig films. I agree with Mark Gatiss when he said that everything about DAF seems slightly "off". It's the weirdest of the Bond films, and not in a good way.

As for DAD, I normally don't like placing all the blame for a film's failure on one person, but reading about its production, everything that's wrong with the film really does seem to be Tamahori's fault. It's a shame, because there are some excellent scenes in there which made me think "if only the whole film could have been this good".

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Re: DAD: I also blame the producers on this one (and I can discuss why I think they’re actually good most of the time (once again, I’m going to be very careful and reiterate that I’m not here to change anyone’s minds, but I’m seeing it from the industry angle and, man, I would give my left hand to work with them (I have no ambitions to work on a Bond picture, but something else)).

But in the case of DAD, they let Tamahori run wild. It’s the producers job to yes, develop the vision with the director in pre-production, and then let the director have his or her freedom during principal.

Saying that, they should be over-seeing the day to day during production, including the dailies. They must’ve seen things were going off the rails at some point. And if there was no time to fire the director (which I find hard to believe— there’s always time), then they should have been standing right behind Tamahori for every single shot.

From what I heard, lessons have been learned, and they’ve been far more present on sets since then (although I’ve also heard they are fair with their directors and allow creativity to take place).

So, yes, Tamahori is to blame (what the hell was he smoking?? and can I get some), but EON hired him and then didn’t put a leash on him when things were riding off the rails.

[kater23]

*high fives Pluto*

[Pluto007]

*high fives Pluto*

Many thanks, Kater!!

[bjmdds]

Forget Aaron Taylor-Johnson, or other rumors including Leo Woodall, because the Skims founder, 43, is convinced she could ‘totally’ replace Daniel Craig.
The reality TV star made a genuine pitch to be the next James Bond in the latest episode of The Kardashians and said she ‘really loved’ the idea of joining the franchise. However, she admitted there was just one single obstacle blocking her route to 007 glory – her penchant for Botox.

Who is convinced?

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KIMMY

[kater23]

We need to get away from the Austin Powers stuff,like having Blofeld being Bond’s foster brother PASS.

[dirtybenny]

I think the failure of the most recent Mission: Impossible film, which was largely attributed to its having "Part One" in the title, might send out a signal that people no longer want to invest in continuing storylines.

That and the three hour run time!

[bjmdds]

We need to get away from the Austin Powers stuff,like having Blofeld being Bond’s foster brother PASS.

You did not appreciate the genius in that storyline MP? Broccoli thought long and hard with that concept.