Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

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Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by carl stromberg »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christoph ... 93602.html
Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

"Skyfall" is being hailed as the best James Bond film ever, but that's a bit disingenuous. The film's greatest scenes rely on references, subtle and not, to previous Bond adventures ("Goldfinger," specifically) and Christopher Nolan's Batman films. Neither is an accident: Director Sam Mendes has said in multiple interviews that he wanted to honor to 50 years of 007 ("Dr. No" came out in 1962) while also bringing Nolan's blockbuster aesthetic to the graying franchise. That's great, and he succeeds at both of those things, but only to a point; "Skyfall" exists in some nether-region between homage and rip-off, and too often feels like Bond without Bond. Mendes' stated goal was to make James Bond relevant for today's audiences; if that meant turning 007 into your garden-variety superhero, mission accomplished.

Consider the hasty backstory that gets thrown together in the third act, culled at least in part from Ian Fleming's final Bond novel, "You Only Live Twice": Bond is an orphan, whose parents died in a car accident. Not only is that classic superhero motivation (Batman, Spider-Man), but, as presented in "Skyfall," it's also kind of inconsequential. "Skyfall" doesn't really bother examining what being an orphan means to Bond, nor whether his parents' deaths affect his relationship with M (Judi Dench). In Nolan's Batman films, the specter of Bruce Wayne's dead parents hangs over the proceedings like a funeral dirge; in "Skyfall," it's an easy plot point used as shorthand to give meaning to a character who doesn't require any more meaning. Bond is Bond; he's been the same misogynistic, psychotic, alcoholic secret agent we've come to love over the past 50 years. There's no need to turn him into Bruce Wayne. The beauty of this franchise is that it doesn't need another origin story, especially so soon after the last Bond origin story ("Casino Royale" in 2006).

That's a shame, because the fun parts of "Skyfall" are really fun. Daniel Craig is still a stiff as 007, but "Skyfall" gives him some opportunity to be humorous. It doesn't always work, but the effort is a nice change of pace from the dour twosome of "Casino Royale" and "Quantum of Solace." Mendes, meanwhile, is a talented visual filmmaker, and "Skyfall" might be his crown jewel. The cinematography by Roger Deakins is Oscar-worthy (not that the Oscars would want to reward James Bond), and the entire film just looks gorgeous. In that regard, "Skyfall" is the best Bond ever. It just doesn't include the best Bond. It doesn't even include the best Batman.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Gala Brand »

Fleming's last novel was "The Man With The Golden Gun" not YOLT. When a critic gets basic issue like that wrong (which can be confirmed on Wikipedia in 45 seconds) it calls into question their basic competence.

BTW, Bruce Wayne wasn't the first fictional character to have parental issues. David Copperfield, Oliver Twist, Huck Finn, quickly come to mind. Exploring a character's back story, including his relationship to his parents, is way of deepening the characterization. That's what Mendes and the screewriters did in Skyfall.

The comparison of Bruce Wayne to James Bond is inapt. Bruce Wayne pursues bad guys to avenge the death of his parents (who died at the hands of bad guys). Bond is driven to risk his life because he has little to live for, including a family. This was very clear in the books.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

Maybe the author thought TMTGG was written by Kingsley Amis. :D

Do you like the older Bond movies Gala or are you a Craig fanatic?
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Gala Brand »

Yeah, Amis's involvement in TMWTGG has always a question mark, but it's got Fleming's name on the front and the royalties flow to his estate, so it's his.

My favorite Bond films, in order, are CR, SF, OHMSS, GF, FRWL, DN, TLD, and TB. After that, there's a distinct dropoff in quality.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by The Sweeney »

Gala Brand wrote:Yeah, Amis's involvement in TMWTGG has always a question mark, but it's got Fleming's name on the front and the royalties flow to his estate, so it's his.

My favorite Bond films, in order, are CR, SF, OHMSS, GF, FRWL, DN, TLD, and TB. After that, there's a distinct dropoff in quality.
Nice list GB, pretty much follows mine - although I would stick in LTK there too. :cheers:
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Omega »

EON was trying to make Batman begins for Bond since CR, they got it mostly right with Spyfall.
Skyfalll is kind of a mutt everyone recognizes where they took whole sections of the movie from, that IMO detracts some.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Gala Brand »

Sweeny,I saw License To Kill at the theater when it first came out. I didn't have good memories but that might have been because of the person I saw it with. I saw it again on TV about ten years ago and my recollection was that it was a mediocre thriller at about the same level as FYEO and QOS. I need to give it another viewing.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Omega »

Gala Brand wrote:Sweeny,I saw License To Kill at the theater when it first came out. I didn't have good memories but that might have been because of the person I saw it with. I saw it again on TV about ten years ago and my recollection was that it was a mediocre thriller at about the same level as FYEO and QOS. I need to give it another viewing.
I like LTK a lot I see where is has problems, as a Bond film is a favorite but I see where people were not happy with it at the time. I like that LTK and GE follow each other, they were I think great films that have a seemless transition of actors.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by FormerBondFan »

Omega wrote: I like LTK a lot I see where is has problems, as a Bond film is a favorite but I see where people were not happy with it at the time.
While retaining traditional elements, it felt like Lethal Weapon in so many ways. Villain, plot involving drugs, violence, soundtrack, title song, etc.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Bejams »

Me and my mates laughed at Skyfall ripping off Batman. Bond had a beard went loony and disappered only to come back and save everyone like Bruce Wayne. He had his Aston martin stored away like the Batmobile. Does he have a poxy Bondcopter in another garage? Then he has an estate in Scotchland like Wayne Manor and a butler like Alfred.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Veronica »

"To make Bond important to today's audiances?" Does he mean kids only by that?Bond was relevant and iconic ever since it became a world-wide phenomenon with Sean Connery as James Bond.The Bond that we all know is the charismatic,sophisticated one.Do they really think that charismatic,sophisticated secret agent wouldn't work in "today's world",whatever that meant.The turned James Bond into Jason Bourne only because Bourne became successful in 2004( :?: )..That kind of Bond worked more than good for 40 year and it would still work...Barbara Broccoli obviously knows only to do rip-offs.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Omega »

Veronica wrote:"To make Bond important to today's audiances?" Does he mean kids only by that?Bond was relevant and iconic ever since it became a world-wide phenomenon with Sean Connery as James Bond.The Bond that we all know is the charismatic,sophisticated one.Do they really think that charismatic,sophisticated secret agent wouldn't work in "today's world",whatever that meant.The turned James Bond into Jason Bourne only because Bourne became successful in 2004( :?: )..That kind of Bond worked more than good for 40 year and it would still work...Barbara Broccoli obviously knows only to do rip-offs.
they copied Bourne and later batman begins be neither of those movies was successful as just about any bond movie.
They are in LTK territory which was a underachiever in the bond family. So why did they copy the other movies unless they we're out of ideas.?


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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Veronica »

Omega wrote:
Veronica wrote:"To make Bond important to today's audiances?" Does he mean kids only by that?Bond was relevant and iconic ever since it became a world-wide phenomenon with Sean Connery as James Bond.The Bond that we all know is the charismatic,sophisticated one.Do they really think that charismatic,sophisticated secret agent wouldn't work in "today's world",whatever that meant.The turned James Bond into Jason Bourne only because Bourne became successful in 2004( :?: )..That kind of Bond worked more than good for 40 year and it would still work...Barbara Broccoli obviously knows only to do rip-offs.
they copied Bourne and later batman begins be neither of those movies was successful as just about any bond movie.
They are in LTK territory which was a underachiever in the bond family. So why did they copy the other movies unless they we're out of ideas.?


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As Mendes aready said to make Bond "closer to today's audiances"..the only logical thing is that he is referencing to kids who have never seen real James Bond movie before.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by ml94 »

Skyfall IS NOT bond movie.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Veronica »

ml94 wrote:Skyfall IS NOT bond movie.
Aside from a few one liners,a great-looking Bond girl a decent theme song and Aston Martin there's nothing else. The whole movie is just one incredibly empty walk. Silva is chasing M for some reason that we never find out the list of secret agents is completely forgotten during the movie and well...there's nothing else two main things about the villian are taken from two previous Bond movies(GE and TWINE) but both Alec and Elektra were incredibly good villians. Silva on the other hand was just over-the-top and really I could not take him seriously. There is no real plot what so ever and the whole plan of Silva is just so full of plot holes that could not be expressed in words. He knew how this and that and this and that and this and that will be.. don't mock my intelligence. Someone commented how the best thing about Skyfall is the new coke ad before the movie(since I didn't watch the movie in the cinema I didn't see the ad but somehow that's not difficult to believe). Basically the biggest and best thing about Skyfall is it's great promotion. I mean,there was so much hype. Anyway... didn't deserve it by any stretch of imagination.
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Re: Bond As Batman: The Problem With 'Skyfall'

Post by Veronica »

The thing is Skyfall is an incredibly over-hyped Bond movie but on imDb you can read an awful lot-and I mean like A LOT negative comments about it. Conclusion-critics were paid to write reviews because there is never a movie that is lraised by critics and then isn't by general public. There are situations when the things are opposite..
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