Brexit

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Brexit

Yes
3
60%
No
0
No votes
Don't Know
2
40%
 
Total votes: 5

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Goldeneye
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Goldeneye »

What is the opinion of our UK members of Britexit? I find it curious so many world leaders are trying to pressure the UK to stay. Makes me think a little of the Scottish independence vote last year (was it last year?).
Maybe someday soon we can celebrate Craigexit!
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Kristatos »

Goldeneye wrote:What is the opinion of our UK members of Britexit? I find it curious so many world leaders are trying to pressure the UK to stay. Makes me think a little of the Scottish independence vote last year (was it last year?).
Maybe someday soon we can celebrate Craigexit!
I'm probably going to hold my nose and vote to remain. The EU is a hard institution to love, and being half-Greek, I've seen the results of EU-imposed austerity first-hand. But the alternative seems worse. For one thing, we'd probably end up with Boris Johnson as our prime minister!
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by carl stromberg »

Kristatos wrote:
Goldeneye wrote:What is the opinion of our UK members of Britexit? I find it curious so many world leaders are trying to pressure the UK to stay. Makes me think a little of the Scottish independence vote last year (was it last year?).
Maybe someday soon we can celebrate Craigexit!
I'm probably going to hold my nose and vote to remain. The EU is a hard institution to love, and being half-Greek, I've seen the results of EU-imposed austerity first-hand. But the alternative seems worse. For one thing, we'd probably end up with Boris Johnson as our prime minister!
How about a thread in the politics section?

I thought we already had Craigexit (crexit!) ? It will be a big anti-climax if he signs a new Bond contract.
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Re: The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

Post by Kristatos »

I'll move these posts to the politics forum the next time I'm at my PC, probably this afternoon.
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Brexit

Post by Goldeneye »

Partial excerpt to explain the situation.
The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know
By Brian Wheeler & Alex Hunt BBC News


What is happening?

[spoil]A referendum is being held on Thursday, 23 June to decide whether Britain should leave or remain in the European Union. This article is designed to be an easy-to-understand guide - if you have any questions you can send them in using this link. We'll be answering a selection at the bottom of the page.
What is a referendum?

A referendum is basically a vote in which everyone (or nearly everyone) of voting age can take part, normally giving a "Yes" or "No" answer to a question. Whichever side gets more than half of all votes cast is considered to have won.
Why is a referendum being held?

Prime Minister David Cameron promised to hold one if he won the 2015 general election, in response to growing calls from his own Conservative MPs and the UK Independence Party (UKIP), who argued that Britain had not had a say since 1975, when it voted to stay in the EU in a referendum. The EU has changed a lot since then, gaining more control over our daily lives, they argued. Mr Cameron said: "It is time for the British people to have their say. It is time to settle this European question in British politics."
What is the European Union?

The European Union - often known as the EU - is an economic and political partnership involving 28 European countries (click here if you want to see the full list). It began after World War Two to foster economic co-operation, with the idea that countries which trade together are more likely to avoid going to war with each other. It has since grown to become a "single market" allowing goods and people to move around, basically as if the member states were one country. It has its own currency, the euro, which is used by 19 of the member countries, its own parliament and it now sets rules in a wide range of areas - including on the environment, transport, consumer rights and even things like mobile phone charges.

What will the referendum question be?

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" Read more: Does the wording of a referendum question matter?
What does Brexit mean?

It is a word that has become used as a shorthand way of saying the UK leaving the EU - merging the words Britain and exit to get Brexit, in a same way as a Greek exit from the EU was dubbed Grexit in the past.
Who will be able to vote?

British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals living abroad who have been on the electoral register in the UK in the past 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.
How do you vote?

It will be a similar system to that during other elections. Firstly, if you have registered to vote, you'll be sent a card telling you when voting takes place and where you should go to vote on 23 June. On that day, when you go to the polling station you will be given a piece of paper with the referendum question on it. You then go to a booth, which will have a pencil in it for your use. You then put a X in the box which reflects your choice and put the paper into a ballot box. Alternatively you will also be able to opt to vote by post. Read more: Electoral Commission's guide to applying to vote by post.
Didn't David Cameron try and change the rules of the UK's EU membership?

Yes. This was the big news back in January and February as David Cameron sought an agreement with other European Union leaders to change the terms of Britain's membership. He says the deal, which will take effect immediately if the UK votes to remain in the EU, gives Britain "special" status within the 28 nation club, and will help sort out some of the things British people say they don't like about the EU, such as high levels of immigration and giving up the ability to run our own affairs.

Critics say his deal will make little difference and falls well short of what he had promised when he announced his plan for a referendum. Read more: What Cameron wanted v what he got

The main points of the deal are:

Child benefit - Migrant workers will still be able to send child benefit payments back to to their home country - Mr Cameron had wanted to end this practice - but the payments will be set at a level reflecting the cost of living in their home country rather than the full UK rate
Migrant welfare payments - Mr Cameron says cutting the amount of benefits low paid workers from other EU nations can claim when they take a job in the UK will remove one of the reasons people come to Britain in such large numbers (critics say it will make little difference). He did not get the blanket ban he wanted. New arrivals will not be able to claim tax credits and other welfare payments straight away - but will gradually gain the right to more benefits the longer they stay, at a rate yet to be decided.
Keeping the pound - Mr Cameron has said Britain will never join the euro. He secured assurances that the eurozone countries will not discriminate against Britain for having a different currency. Any British money spent on bailing out eurozone nations that get into trouble will also be reimbursed.
Protection for the City of London - Safeguards for Britain's large financial services industry to prevent eurozone regulations being imposed on it
Running its own affairs - For the first time, there will be a clear commitment that Britain is not part of a move towards "ever closer union" with other EU member states - one of the core principles of the EU. This will be incorporated in an EU treaty change. Mr Cameron also secured a "red card" system for national parliaments making it easier for governments to band together to block unwanted legislation. If 55% of national EU parliaments object to a piece of EU legislation it will be rethought. Critics say it is not clear if this would ever be used in practice.

Who wants the UK to leave the EU?

The British public are fairly evenly split, according to the latest opinion polls. The UK Independence Party, which won the last European elections, and received nearly four million votes - 13% of those cast - in May's general election, campaigns for Britain's exit from the EU. About half of Conservative MPs, including five cabinet ministers, several Labour MPs and the DUP are also in favour of leaving.
Why do they want the UK to leave?

They believe Britain is being held back by the EU, which they say imposes too many rules on business and charges billions of pounds a year in membership fees for little in return. They also want Britain to take back full control of its borders and reduce the number of people coming here to work. One of the main principles of EU membership is "free movement", which means you don't need to get a visa to go and live in another EU country. They also object to the idea of "ever closer union" and what they see as moves towards the creation of a "United States of Europe".
Who wants the UK to stay in the EU?

Prime Minister David Cameron wants Britain to stay in the EU, now he has got some powers back from it. Sixteen members of his cabinet also back staying in. The Conservative Party has pledged to be neutral in the campaign - but the Labour Party, SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems are all in favour of staying in. US president Barack Obama also wants Britain to remain in the EU, as do other EU nations such as France and Germany. As mentioned above, according to polls, the British public seems pretty evenly split on the issue.
Why do they want the UK to stay?

Those campaigning for Britain to stay in the EU say it gets a big boost from membership - it makes selling things to other EU countries easier and, they argue, the flow of immigrants, most of whom are young and keen to work, fuels economic growth and helps pay for public services. They also believe Britain's status in the world would be damaged by leaving and that we are more secure as part of the 28 nation club, rather than going it alone.
So would Britain be better in or out?

It depends which way you look at it - or what you believe is important. Leaving the EU would be a big step - arguably far more important than who wins a general election - but would it set the nation free or condemn it to economic ruin?[/spoil]
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Re: Brexit

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Not being in the UK here is how I view the question. It puzzling since I'm not sure what the EU actually does and means to the people of the UK in their daily lives. Then there is all the political muscle brought in from nations around the world to threaten the UK populace about the dangers of leaving.

When the EU first formed in the 1990s it seemed an audacious dream, the reality seems a lot more tarnished than the bright future promised. My mind has a probably old world view of UK being a stronger sovereign nation able to withstand the economic storm threatened. So to me it is a what does it matter to the EU if the UK leaves? In the case of Scotland leaving the UK it made more sense to remain (IMHO) because of the governmental infrastructure and social services already in place.

I will add in this political year the world seems to be at the whim of changing zeitgeist so almost nothing would surprise me.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

Goldeneye wrote:Not being in the UK here is how I view the question. It puzzling since I'm not sure what the EU actually does and means to the people of the UK in their daily lives. Then there is all the political muscle brought in from nations around the world to threaten the UK populace about the dangers of leaving.

When the EU first formed in the 1990s it seemed an audacious dream, the reality seems a lot more tarnished than the bright future promised. My mind has a probably old world view of UK being a stronger sovereign nation able to withstand the economic storm threatened. So to me it is a what does it matter to the EU if the UK leaves? In the case of Scotland leaving the UK it made more sense to remain (IMHO) because of the governmental infrastructure and social services already in place.

I will add in this political year the world seems to be at the whim of changing zeitgeist so almost nothing would surprise me.
No one knows what the EU does as it is very confusing! It's a new type of political system. The people supporting it want a union in Europe and are making it up as they go along. There is a European government, flag, parliament, currency etc. But members still have most powers of independent states such as over defence and foreign affairs. also the UK is not in the euro so we have more powers over interest rates etc.

On of the main things about the EU is the EU single market. This has caused problems in the UK because people from around Europe can come here because there is freedom of movement and people have been moaning about the UK population going up every year. I'd probably want to be in the EEA if the UK left the EU which still has freedom of movement, but with some more control.

I'll vote to leave because the EU is awful and we can be better off outside the EU and have a better European co-operation.

The Scottish nationalists wanted independence in the EU and join the euro (but changed it to using the UK pound after the euro problems). To be honest they would not have much power if they did that.,
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Re: Brexit

Post by carl stromberg »

Jon Cleese back Brexit :|

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/john- ... 69976.html
The 76-year-old, who said he will be voting to leave the European Union in next week’s EU Referendum, said he did not believe there was any chance of major reform in the EU.

In a series of tweets, Cleese made his views on remaining in the European Union clear.

He posted: “If I thought there was any chance of major reform in the EU, I’d vote to stay in. But there isn’t. Sad. Sorry, Paddy.”

If I thought there was any chance of major reform in the EU,I'd vote to stay in.But there isn't.Sad.Sorry,Paddy.
— John Cleese (@JohnCleese) June 11, 2016

We were usually swimming against the tide ; and the EU bureaucracy took away any trace of democratic accountability https://t.co/pkGNYyqTCF
— John Cleese (@JohnCleese) June 11, 2016

It should give up the Euro, introduce accountability,and hang Jean-Claude Juncker https://t.co/JtN3VwKPRi
— John Cleese (@JohnCleese) June 11, 2016

When asked what kind of reforms the EU needs, Cleese replied: “It should give up the Euro, introduce accountability, and hang Jean-Claude Juncker.”

Mr Juncker is the president of the European Commission
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goldeneye »

I'm shocked by how quickly the polls swapped in favor of the Brexit. I would like to see what happen if the UK exits, just from my view as an outsider I think UK can stand one their own and have good trading relations with the EU.

I'm sickened by attempt of the opposition trying tie the attack on MP to Brexit. I hope it backfires political games like this become less common.

It is a horrible sicking attack on the MP. A similar attack happened a few years ago with a Moslem man as the perpetrator, nobody dared to associate his religion to the attack, trying desperately to turn that tide on Brexit by blaming the opposition for causing the attack is low. Beside BRexit is in the lead why would attacking a MP on the opposite side make sense? My first guess would be the perpetrator is a crazy.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

I was a bit surprised to see the killer of Jo Cox portrayed as some anti-EU extremist. Some foreign newspapers have been using this angle.I don't think the details of the murder have been released.
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Re: Brexit

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There are unconfirmed reports that the killer shouted "Britain First", which is the name of a far-right group, and as Cox was active in the Remain campaign, it has led to speculation that he was motivated by support for Vote Leave. But most of the news coverage I've seen describes him as a mentally disturbed loner, the usual descriptor for white killers (brown-skinned killers are "Muslim terrorists" while black ones are "gang members" in media parlance).
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Re: Brexit

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I'm glad the news reports were more moderate in tone locally. The stories I was reading seem desperate to replace their straw-man argument with a boogeyman.
I've started reading more UK news sources for stories here in the US. Surprising that they are more in depth and local media is lacking, I was blaming all the news papers being bought up, not so sure it is just lazy reporters anyone.

Over here it has become standard to not report details of a story if the culprit belongs to a certain religion which shall remain nameless, may blessings and peace be upon it ;)

Brexit fascinates me it could be a real game changers for the world, like I said my image of the UK is a strong nation that can stand on its own, it seems to me the EU membership while it has benefits is also punitive to larger more developed nations. Also a weird cabal of power for certain people with the right pedigree. Why is Brussels the center of everything?
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Re: Brexit

Post by bjmdds »

Congratulations to the UK :!: :cheers: Immigration and your economy were the TWO issues that freed your country from the EU. Trump wanted the UK to leave the EU. Oh-bama preached to the UK to stay in, as did Cr-egg. America is next big O :!:
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Re: Brexit

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Except that the economy is now crashing. I think the implications of leaving are only now starting to hit home, with the pound at its lowest point since 1985. As a freelance writer who mostly gets paid in US$, this is going to hit my pocketbook big time. And the Leave campaign was being slightly disingenuous in linking the immigration issue to membership of the EU. Whilst leaving will put a stop to the European single market, it won't do much to stop the people fleeing wars in places like Syria.
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Re: Brexit

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Hang in there Kris. When Trump gets in here, the UK will have a great trading partner. No more Dems nor Repubs here. Nationalism rules :!: :up:
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Re: Brexit

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Kristatos wrote:Except that the economy is now crashing. I think the implications of leaving are only now starting to hit home, with the pound at its lowest point since 1985. As a freelance writer who mostly gets paid in US$, this is going to hit my pocketbook big time. And the Leave campaign was being slightly disingenuous in linking the immigration issue to membership of the EU. Whilst leaving will put a stop to the European single market, it won't do much to stop the people fleeing wars in places like Syria.
Sorry the market volatility will hurt you so directly Kris. If we can do anything to help say the word. There are a few others who here who make at least part of their living with the pen as well. I'll be glad to help any way I can or any way the site can.

This is hitting everybody in the marketplace. That bothers me because it's speculators driving this, as of this morning nothing has changed it is the same as yesterday, the Uk is still part of the EU. It is the speculators gutting the economies for their own profit and I think some it is punitive payback for what the investors think is the wrong choice. Personally we have seen our retirement accounts get gutted several times in the least 15 years based solely on the whims of these protected group of people.

IMO the market can stabilize if cooler heads prevail, from what I read today the establishment of EU and UK are having a temper tantrum, they may have some legitimate points. I have not heard a solid plan form the Brexit people on the other hand while they might be unprepared the political parties seem to be in the take all marbles and go home mentality. Which I've seen here in the US with the presidential primaries.
I'm missing a lot of details, when I went to bed it was the Brexit people conceding the referendum on the drive in the radio shocked me with news Brexit prevailed, had to jump on a computer to say something.
What needs to happen is the PM and others in power negotiate a favorable exit and try to maintain trade status and travel rights, nobody gets to quit their jobs because they are upset, Cameron allowed this to happen now he has to see it through.
If I had any spare money to invest I'd invest in the UK while prices are low, I really believe in the UK but as I said I have a romanticized ideal of the country.
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Re: Brexit

Post by bjmdds »

Stock market is such BS. It will be fine in 4 weeks and the UK will be a better place to live in throwing out migrant freeloaders.
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Re: Brexit

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Some of the European markets took a bigger hit than London in the end. I'm sure we'll be fine when everyone has calmed down.
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Re: Brexit

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Your London Muslim mayor wants his city to break away from the UK now :!: What kind of a moron did they put in office? Another DeBlasio from NYC who will be a one term disgrace here?
Last edited by bjmdds on Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

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bjmdds wrote:Your London Muslim mayor wants his city to break away from the UK now :!: What kind of a moron did they put in office? Another DeBlasio from NYC who will be a term disgrace here?
Not exactly. There's a petition *to* the mayor that has been signed by over 100,000 people: http://m.plymouthherald.co.uk/london-ur ... story.html
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