Scottish Independence Referendum

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Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

There will be a referendum to ask if Scotland should be an independent country on 18th September 2014.

Last poll is 36% yes 46% no 18% undecided

Sean Connery is supporting independence.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Kristatos »

That's quite a lot of undecideds. The nats have got the bigger mountain to climb, but they could still pull it off.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

It would be difficult for Labour to win an Eng & Wal General Election without those Scotch seats.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

Not long to go until the referendum. It would be chaos if there is a vote for independence - I don't think non-Nationalist think there will be a yes vote.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

Not long to go now!
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Kristatos »

Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:Not long to go now!
It's not until September, IIRC. The No campaign is ahead in every poll so far, but the gap seems to be closing, largely thanks to some tone-deaf comments from senior Tories. I have a suspicion that the Tories secretly want Scotland gone, for the reason you mentioned upthread (it would pretty much wipe out Labour in the rest of the UK), but can't say so openly, because it contradicts their official policy.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by carl stromberg »

Polls have No (to independence) in the lead. For example You-Gov, 1 Jul 2014: No 54% Yes 35% Don't know 12%
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Problem Eliminator »

The polls have it as a toss up now. As a yank, it's not really my business which way they vote. However I think the UK and liberal democracies in general should be proud of this process. Can you imagine any other political system that would allow an economically valuable region to even have a referendum on leaving? Look at Chechnya, or Uiger inhabited regions of China, or how Sudan has treated South Sudan. Regardless of the outcome democracies can point to it and say it's an example of how you should do things.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Dr. No »

Sorry Sir Captain I qouted you posted here instead of the other thread.
Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:
Dr. No wrote:
Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:BJMDDS, Dr No: what is your view on Scotland becoming independent? The vote is only a few weeks away.
It may not be the correct view but I want them to be independent! From Braveheart to Connery all the scotts I respect the most say freedom!
Then again I grew up in the south, maybe not as much now but there was a feeling of resentment for the feds/yankees essentially being a conquered people. So I sympathised with the Scots and Irish.

What happens if they to go independent? I heard some British bases close
Scotland is not really a colony of England - it is an equal partner in a Union with England. But you could say it is dominated by London etc. Also Braveheart was many years ago and the movie was made up. :twisted:

The British nuclear submarines are based in Scotland. The Scotch will want to be nuclear free so they will have to move to England.

If Scotland becomes indepedent then it will be a pain and it will take a few years to complete the process. There will not be a counrty called Britian or a Union jack any more. So no more of this flag: :britflag:
:lol: So it's alight to keep oppressing if they have been under the heel of England since before July 4 1776 ;)
There are a ton of things to consider if they separate the Nuke Sub base is one, national defense is another. Really this does come with huge consequences. If Alabama secede from the union they have to replace instantly all the infrastructure the federal government provides, and defend themselves against Georgia and Mississippi. :)

I feel for the people who were conquered, my heart says be free. Thinking about it I can see the benefits to a union.

Did the Scotts, Irish, welsh, ever vote to be apart of Britain? The most I know of this history is the bloody wars that conquered them.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

Dr. No wrote:Sorry Sir Captain I qouted you posted here instead of the other thread.
Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:
Dr. No wrote:
Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:BJMDDS, Dr No: what is your view on Scotland becoming independent? The vote is only a few weeks away.
It may not be the correct view but I want them to be independent! From Braveheart to Connery all the scotts I respect the most say freedom!
Then again I grew up in the south, maybe not as much now but there was a feeling of resentment for the feds/yankees essentially being a conquered people. So I sympathised with the Scots and Irish.

What happens if they to go independent? I heard some British bases close
Scotland is not really a colony of England - it is an equal partner in a Union with England. But you could say it is dominated by London etc. Also Braveheart was many years ago and the movie was made up. :twisted:

The British nuclear submarines are based in Scotland. The Scotch will want to be nuclear free so they will have to move to England.

If Scotland becomes indepedent then it will be a pain and it will take a few years to complete the process. There will not be a counrty called Britian or a Union jack any more. So no more of this flag: :britflag:
:lol: So it's alight to keep oppressing if they have been under the heel of England since before July 4 1776 ;)
There are a ton of things to consider if they separate the Nuke Sub base is one, national defense is another. Really this does come with huge consequences. If Alabama secede from the union they have to replace instantly all the infrastructure the federal government provides, and defend themselves against Georgia and Mississippi. :)

I feel for the people who were conquered, my heart says be free. Thinking about it I can see the benefits to a union.

Did the Scotts, Irish, welsh, ever vote to be apart of Britain? The most I know of this history is the bloody wars that conquered them.
Scotland voted to be part of a union with England of it's own free will - it was not "oppressed" by England. The Scots realised they could become rich by joining with England and did so with the British Empire. Ireland is a bit different...

Remember we are all part of the European Union which is turning into a United States of Europe just to confuse things even more. :happy spin:
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

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Dr. No wrote:
:lol: So it's alight to keep oppressing if they have been under the heel of England since before July 4 1776 ;)
I hope the Scots vote yes, but if they remain within the UK, it'll be because they have freely chosen to do so, not because of "oppression". I have noticed a tendency among Americans to view everything through the prism of their own early history, as if a referendum was the same thing as their war of independence from Mad King George. It's what led many Americans to give money to the IRA back when they were busily blowing up British pubs and shopping centres, just like George Washington would have done.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

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Kristatos wrote:
Dr. No wrote:
:lol: So it's alight to keep oppressing if they have been under the heel of England since before July 4 1776 ;)
I hope the Scots vote yes, but if they remain within the UK, it'll be because they have freely chosen to do so, not because of "oppression". I have noticed a tendency among Americans to view everything through the prism of their own early history, as if a referendum was the same thing as their war of independence from Mad King George. It's what led many Americans to give money to the IRA back when they were busily blowing up British pubs and shopping centres, just like George Washington would have done.
True about the IRA. Although it may have help keep their attacks out of the USA since we were a major fundraising center for them. I can't imagine the USA standing any nation being a fundraising center Al Qaeda.

Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:
Dr. No wrote:Sorry Sir Captain I qouted you posted here instead of the other thread.

:lol: So it's alight to keep oppressing if they have been under the heel of England since before July 4 1776 ;)
There are a ton of things to consider if they separate the Nuke Sub base is one, national defense is another. Really this does come with huge consequences. If Alabama secede from the union they have to replace instantly all the infrastructure the federal government provides, and defend themselves against Georgia and Mississippi. :)

I feel for the people who were conquered, my heart says be free. Thinking about it I can see the benefits to a union.

Did the Scotts, Irish, welsh, ever vote to be apart of Britain? The most I know of this history is the bloody wars that conquered them.
Scotland voted to be part of a union with England of it's own free will - it was not "oppressed" by England. The Scots realised they could become rich by joining with England and did so with the British Empire. Ireland is a bit different...

Remember we are all part of the European Union which is turning into a United States of Europe just to confuse things even more. :happy spin:
The well know histories here cover stuff like Cromwellian conquest of Ireland and Wars of Scottish Independence, they don't go to the present day or late 19th century. Even in the 19th century, Napoleonic wars time things were so nice between the nations.

Hollywood will not tell any story ending in a vote to join a union.

My opinion is colored more by USA history, war between the states, indian wars, banana wars,Spanish–American War, all the Lincoln Republicans partnering with industry and businesses to conquer people to steal their resources. What we did to Hawaii is unthinkable to me. What Woodrow Wilson did for race relations is just as unthinkable to me. Hell I think it was the Bureau of Indian Affairs where the people running it out right stole the equivalent of billions of dollars belonging to the native peoples. Some compensation attempts were made but it is a fraction of what was looted for nearly 100 years.

In my view we (USA) have a lot of conquered people forced to be part of union, some to live on reservations, some in territories, a fair number are not happy to be part of the federal system but realize it's better to be part of the union than on your own.

I don't have a bad view of England really. The way some of these referendums are presented it seems like a good a good idea. I like what Kris said about voting yes and staying in the UK.

I got a question does the UK have a income tax on top of he VAT? (been some discussion here about a similar VAT.)
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Problem Eliminator »

Kristatos wrote:
Dr. No wrote:
:lol: So it's alight to keep oppressing if they have been under the heel of England since before July 4 1776 ;)
I hope the Scots vote yes, but if they remain within the UK, it'll be because they have freely chosen to do so, not because of "oppression". I have noticed a tendency among Americans to view everything through the prism of their own early history, as if a referendum was the same thing as their war of independence from Mad King George. It's what led many Americans to give money to the IRA back when they were busily blowing up British pubs and shopping centres, just like George Washington would have done.
Why do you want Scotland to leave? I thought the English were pretty gutted about the prospect. BTW, what will the new flag look like? The same but without the blue?
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Kristatos »

Problem Eliminator wrote:
Why do you want Scotland to leave? I thought the English were pretty gutted about the prospect. BTW, what will the new flag look like? The same but without the blue?
I believe that the Scots would be better off controlling their own destiny, rather than taking orders from London. The Flag Institute today revealed their design for a new flag, though I don't know if it will be adopted by parliament. Basically, it replaces the blue with the black of St David's cross and adds a yellow border to St George's cross, thus giving Wales representation on the Union Flag for the first time.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by James »

I believe in unity rather than division so I hope there is a no vote. People have the same problems everywhere, whether they live in Liverpool or Dundee. Plus, from a more selfish point of view, with the loss of 40+ Labour MPs with Scottish seats we'll be stuck with the Tories forever.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

Post by Dr. No »

Came across this surfing :lol:
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

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James wrote:I believe in unity rather than division so I hope there is a no vote. People have the same problems everywhere, whether they live in Liverpool or Dundee. Plus, from a more selfish point of view, with the loss of 40+ Labour MPs with Scottish seats we'll be stuck with the Tories forever.
I often see this argument, but must have missed the bit where it's explained why that should be the Scots' problem.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

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I've heard David Cameron would have to resign if the Scots vote yes. True?
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

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Problem Eliminator wrote:I've heard David Cameron would have to resign if the Scots vote yes. True?
He wouldn't *have* to, but I suspect he'd be under tremendous pressure from his own party to step down.
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Re: Scottish Independence Referendum

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Britain doesnt have regularly scheduled elections do they? The party in power can basically stay on until they get a vote of no confidence?
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