the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby okconnery » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:44 am

Die Another Day appeared a little more than a year after 911 and the producers received a lot of flak about continuing to produce a "frivolous" Bond in the wake of the attack and the war on terrorism. The terrorists won . . . we don't even get to watch an actually entertaining Bond film anymore. Ask a Craig-bot to name a favorite scene in any of the movies (especially Quantum hahaha), they come up with nothing because there is literally nothing memorable. Ask a Goldfinger fan for example and he or she might cite the gold-painted girl or Oddjob and his bowler or Bond on the laser table (I'm not going to go film by film, you get the drift). Of course now that the producers are making more money than ever before, they are under even less obligation to come up with anything really inventive or original. Some of us more paranoid might even accuse them of deliberately sabotaging themselves with the worst special effects ever in Die Another Day (tho the plane in Quantum doesn't win any prizes either)
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby The Saint 007 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:51 am

That and Austin Powers, according to Craig and the filmmakers. Those few parody films were enough to throw away 40 years of cinematic history, making the series more darker and grittier in order to not be the target of such parodies. I would take those parodies as the sincerest form of flattery. Why? Because it shows how popular the James Bond series really is. There have been numerous Bond parodies made long before Austin Powers came about, and Albert Broccoli didn't throw in the towel. Many famous film/TV series have been parodied, again because of their popularity. It's easier for people to get the jokes about something that's more well-known rather than something that is niche. This sort of thing has been going on for years, it's just the way it is.

So if Barbara Broccoli thinks that by making Bond more serious and stone-faced is the answer to not being the target of Austin Powers types of parodies, she can think again. The series still has the James Bond name and is still very popular. One could argue that Craig's Bonds are an even easier target for parodies because of how artsy and pretentious they are. In fact, there already is quite a bit of spoof materiel on Craig's Bond, and not just on this site. At least the older Bond films didn't take themselves too seriously. If Barbara doesn't want Bond to be parodied, then she'll just have to figure out how to make it a niche series that not many people care about. If you allow a great long-running series to be defeated by something as harmless as Austin Powers, then the Bond producers truly are Octopussies.
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby bjmdds » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:07 pm

FBF says forget it and send in Sheamus to the rescue from the WWE.
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby okconnery » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:42 pm

Craig made noises about leaving the role between Quantum and Skyfall, and even said he shouldn't have taken the role in the first place .. . I'm betting he looked at the Skyfall script and thought it would not do any better than Quantum . .. Craig has also made noises about wanting going back to the classic i.e. ultimately more frivolous and actually entertaining Bond . .. this is also why they had to sucker us back in with the Goldfinger car, even though it has no logical connection to the reboot . . . but now they've made a billion dollars on it, what do any of them care
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby Barry Niven » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:55 am

The Saint 007 wrote:That and Austin Powers, according to Craig and the filmmakers. Those few parody films were enough to throw away 40 years of cinematic history, making the series more darker and grittier in order to not be the target of such parodies. I would take those parodies as the sincerest form of flattery. Why? Because it shows how popular the James Bond series really is. There have been numerous Bond parodies made long before Austin Powers came about, and Albert Broccoli didn't throw in the towel. Many famous film/TV series have been parodied, again because of their popularity. It's easier for people to get the jokes about something that's more well-known rather than something that is niche. This sort of thing has been going on for years, it's just the way it is.

So if Barbara Broccoli thinks that by making Bond more serious and stone-faced is the answer to not being the target of Austin Powers types of parodies, she can think again. The series still has the James Bond name and is still very popular. One could argue that Craig's Bonds are an even easier target for parodies because of how artsy and pretentious they are. In fact, there already is quite a bit of spoof materiel on Craig's Bond, and not just on this site. At least the older Bond films didn't take themselves too seriously. If Barbara doesn't want Bond to be parodied, then she'll just have to figure out how to make it a niche series that not many people care about. If you allow a great long-running series to be defeated by something as harmless as Austin Powers, then the Bond producers truly are Octopussies.


This pretty much sums up why Babs is a FAILURE compared to her Father; she has such thin skin that she can't take any criticism leveled at her run of the series for appearing so "uncool" and "outdated" without responding in a knee-jerk fashion of throwing out the Baby with the bathwater to win "respect" and "critical acclaim" from the "hip" and "esteemed" critics who really shouldn't matter. By contrast, Cubby toughened it out against the likes of Dean Martin (Matt Helm), James Coburn (Flint) and even that parody of Casino Royale, and still made superior James Bond movies that endure and entertain even today. Hell, Harry Saltzman even counter-acted this Spy movie craze by producing the Harry Palmer trilogy starring Michael Caine, giving himself some extra-coolness points in the process because, well, it's Michael Caine.

In fact, the moderate box-office success of that CR (by a Bond-hungry audience who didn't yet know the difference between a fake Bond film vs. a Real One, which was corrected by 1983's OP vs. NSNA non-event) gave EON the hope that their Bond movies could still be successful without Sean Connery after his first departure of You Only Live Twice. And despite the then-publicized controversy of George Lazenby's casting, just by watching On Her Majesty's Secret Service today I could tell that they focused all their energies on making the BEST James Bond movie they could possibly make, competition or not. Unfortunately, with the absurdity of Austin Powers co-existing alongside the bulk of Pierce Brosnan's run as Bond, Babs' apparently decided that this "ruined" Brosnan's potential to be taken seriously by association which justified her plans to cut him loose and re-imagine the series.

So with Austin Powers itself now gone, what did we get as the "inspiration" for Babs' movies to ape now that the old ways were unfashionable? Sullen, pouty runaway Bourne-Again drivel, whose scripting is so bereft of ingenuity and innovation that the whole "car-chase-followed-by-massive-crash-where-Hero-spares-his-helpless-enemy's-life" climax of the Second movie is recycled in the THIRD movie with NO CHANGE AT ALL. And tedious The GOVERNMENT IS EVIL soap-boxing where the Bad Boss (Chris Cooper) who duped our Hero is killed off by his BADDER Boss (Brian Cox, who resembled Albert Finney), whose suicide and exposure reveals HIS BADDEST BOSS Behind The Whole Thing (who IS Albert Finney!). All set in motion by a "Hero" who "Doesn't want to work for The Man" and "Wants to be Left Alone" because he "Doesn't want to Kill Bad Guys in front of THEIR KIDS Anymore!" and furiously pummels anyone who tries to Bring Him Down.

What a crock of $#!+. I can only guess that if the Old Guard were still in charge, they would've ignored this defeatist, paranoid reactionary foolishness and soldiered-on making the Bond movies THEIR way, even if it meant a moderate drop in box office takings and critical indifference. But instead, the box-office success and absurd critical favoritism gave Babs her excuse to emulate this.. abomination. Right down to dumping their still-very-popular Brosnan in favor of the ridiculously older-looking, far less-attractive, and even more-pouty Craggy as her "Bond". And what does he do that makes him such a hero? If you call being an irresponsible, disobedient, evasive, moody, uncouth, selfish, brutal, mumbling, bullying, incompetent, unprofessional moron who spends more time rebelling against The Man for Bringing Him Down with their Oppressive Rules and Wanton Corruption while only accidentally - and rarely - foiling the villains' feeble and vaguely-defined schemes a "hero", then Craggy's THAT guy. But I'd have to seriously question the intelligence and worldview of anyone who actually believes that. Because if the Gigantic Box-Office takings of these current "Bond" movies are an indication of the kind of "hero" the general public wants to believe in, then I'm absolutely #*+!ing terrified of what this world is coming to.
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby FormerBondFan » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:34 am

bjmdds wrote:FBF says forget it and send in Sheamus to the rescue from the WWE.


Rescue is the not the word I had in mind.
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby The Saint 007 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:01 am

okconnery wrote:Craig made noises about leaving the role between Quantum and Skyfall, and even said he shouldn't have taken the role in the first place .. . I'm betting he looked at the Skyfall script and thought it would not do any better than Quantum . .. Craig has also made noises about wanting going back to the classic i.e. ultimately more frivolous and actually entertaining Bond . .. this is also why they had to sucker us back in with the Goldfinger car, even though it has no logical connection to the reboot . . . but now they've made a billion dollars on it, what do any of them care


Like Die Another Day, Skyfall is an anniversary film and has various homages to the classic Bond films throughout it. It's to celebrate 50 years of all the wonderful things about the series that the producers tried to steer away from with the reboot. But then again, even if Skyfall wasn't an anniversary film, there may still have been some classic Bond elements thrown in to make up for that anti-Bond abomination that was Quantum Of Solace. When in trouble, just use the good ol' nostalgia card.
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby okconnery » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:41 pm

I wasn't strictly enamored of the Brosnan films either but at least they were entertaining and didn't bore me silly. As I've said in other forums, I thought I would just get used to Craig as well, but it's just not happening, and all this playing with the role we now even have to wonder if he's bisexual, something that for sure Fleming wouldn't have countenanced and just one more thing that destroys the essence of the character (tho Craig and Bardem after it was released said that Silva was not necessarily homosexual, that Silva played the character as doing anything to make people who crossed his path feel uncomfortable, and Craig said he believed the character Silva would "f anything." Logan an admitted homosexual re-wrote the screenplay for Skyfall from Purvis and Wade, and he's writing the next two. Plus Craig just gets stranger-looking with each new film, I could barely even look at him in Skyfall . . . watching Casino Royale in 2006 my heart actually sank, wondering if I could ever like a Bond film again . . . THIS is James Bond? I don't think so
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Re: the terrorists won: why the Craig films aren't memorable

Postby bjmdds » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:26 pm

It's not Bond OK......and it's getting worse with each passing film.
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