Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by commander0077again »

One of the features of John Barry's Bonds was that he was 'intrusive' with a lot of blaring music. They appeal to the silly kid movie goer, yesh, Cmdr. 0077A admits this. I understand and accept there are plenty who aren't silly movie goers. In a truly serious film, I agree that the music must be subtle, and often silent. But for a character like Batman or Bond, I prefer the John Barry style of big music. Incidentally, King John composed many fine scores for serious films, and lots of those also had 'big music.'

I couldn't imagine the Connery Bonds, for instance, with ordinary film music. They would have lost much of their magic. Can you imagine YOLT, with Bond on the volacano's ceiling with etude in d minor by da bossy, or that nefarious Emilio Largo sneering at Bond without Bond music? "Do you know much about guns, Meester Bond?" Why, I shudder to think! (he said in a high Connery voice).
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by Kristatos »

commander0077again wrote:One of the features of John Barry's Bonds was that he was 'intrusive' with a lot of blaring music. They appeal to the silly kid movie goer, yesh, Cmdr. 0077A admits this. I understand and accept there are plenty who aren't silly movie goers. In a truly serious film, I agree that the music must be subtle, and often silent. But for a character like Batman or Bond, I prefer the John Barry style of big music. Incidentally, King John composed many fine scores for serious films, and lots of those also had 'big music.'
Yes, the Barry Bond scores had big themes...during the big setpieces. Barry could be subtle, even in a Bond film. Remember that song (Six Underground, I think it was called) that was built around the sample of Bond finding Jill Masterton's body in GF? That was an ambient song, not a dancefloor filler. Barry knew how to vary the mood, and so does Hans Zimmer when it's required of him. The decision to have the music be so incessant in TDK and Inception was presumably Nolan's, not Zimmer's.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by Daltonite Toothpaste »

Brosnan was bloody awful as Bond. That constant smarmy attitude got on my nerves. I can't believe we lost Dalton to Brosnan. Dalton should have been kept on through the 1990's imo. On saying that, I would rather endure one of the Brosnan Bonds than one of Craigs.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

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Brosnan resurrected Dalton's mess, toothpaste. Dalton was poorly received. I sat in the theaters opening weekend of LTK and it was empty. Those who love Dalton's take on Bond are in the minority as is evidenced by the box office disgraces TLD and LTK were. I personally can TOLERATE watching both films, but they are not quality Bond films. Brosnan would have done Bond longer than Moore if his tv contract was not a factor. He was VERY popular coming off his Remington Steele show.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by Daltonite Toothpaste »

Brosnan only resurrected the box office. His 4 Bonds fell back on box ticking and being tribute acts to the past. Dalton may not have pulled in the crowds like Brosnan, but he did at least take the series in a clear direction, rather than bumbling around lost for 7 years.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by The Saint 007 »

Daltonite Toothpaste wrote:Brosnan only resurrected the box office. His 4 Bonds fell back on box ticking and being tribute acts to the past. Dalton may not have pulled in the crowds like Brosnan, but he did at least take the series in a clear direction, rather than bumbling around lost for 7 years.
I personally put a large part of the blame on the producers. After GoldenEye and Albert Broccoli's death, it seemed that Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson didn't know what to do with Pierce Brosnan or the series, which is probably why they just decided to do a reboot. After all, they did get the rights to Casino Royale in 1999. While I personally don't mind Brosnan, I don't think he really reached his full potential as Bond due to the content he was given. There was some pretty good ideas during the Brosnan era that were also just executed poorly. Perhaps if Albert Broccoli was still around at that time things might have been different.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by The Saint 007 »

Daltonite Toothpaste, I guess I should also mention that Brosnan did want to take a more darker approach to Bond, but seeing as how poorly Licence To Kill was received by audiences, the producers decided to take a balanced approach instead. So perhaps Brosnan would have been more comfortable with a serious portrayal of Bond as opposed to the approach that was taken, but who knows.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by The Sweeney »

The Saint 007 wrote:Daltonite Toothpaste, I guess I should also mention that Brosnan did want to take a more darker approach to Bond, but seeing as how poorly Licence To Kill was received by audiences, the producers decided to take a balanced approach instead. So perhaps Brosnan would have been more comfortable with a serious portrayal of Bond as opposed to the approach that was taken, but who knows.
I would have loved it had Brozza appeared in something more dark, like LTK. Sadly he never got the chance, because of the bungling producers steering the lost ship after Cubby's demise.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by The Saint 007 »

The Sweeney wrote:
The Saint 007 wrote:Daltonite Toothpaste, I guess I should also mention that Brosnan did want to take a more darker approach to Bond, but seeing as how poorly Licence To Kill was received by audiences, the producers decided to take a balanced approach instead. So perhaps Brosnan would have been more comfortable with a serious portrayal of Bond as opposed to the approach that was taken, but who knows.
I would have loved it had Brozza appeared in something more dark, like LTK. Sadly he never got the chance, because of the bungling producers steering the lost ship after Cubby's demise.
You know, I honestly think the producers planned Die Another Day to be the final film in the original series before the reboot.

- Eon Gained the rights to Casino Royale in 1999, the same year when The World Is Not Enough came out.

- There was a three year gap between The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day, while there was a two year gap between GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies, as well as between Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough. My guess is that the three year wait was done so Die Another Day would come out on the 40th anniversary.

- Finally, Pierce Brosnan originally signed a deal for four films, which would be fulfilled with Die Another Day. Plus, Brosnan was approaching the age of fifty by that time.

When you put all these facts together, the outlandish nature as well as all the references to the previous Bond films throughout Die Another Day, all seem to be done with the intention that it was to be a big farewell party film for Brosnan and the original series. Now I really can't prove that this is actually for certain, but that's just how I feel about the whole thing. I've seen some of Brosnan's more serious action films, and I think he's pretty good. The reason why he seems kind of unsure as Bond at times, is because the producers were just clueless. As I said before, there was some good ideas during the Brosnan era that were poorly executed. I like Brosnan as Bond, but I think he had much more potential than what was shown. It's really too bad that the producers messed everything up for Brosnan and rebooted the series.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by FormerBondFan »

The Saint 007 wrote:It's really too bad that the producers messed everything up for Brosnan and rebooted the series.
Thankfully, they messed up the reboot with QOS, and I hope Bond 23 will be no different despite being more traditional than the last two.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

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No tradition with DC in the role........it's still pure junk.......... :down:
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by The Saint 007 »

FormerBondFan wrote:
The Saint 007 wrote:It's really too bad that the producers messed everything up for Brosnan and rebooted the series.
Thankfully, they messed up the reboot with QOS, and I hope Bond 23 will be no different despite being more traditional than the last two.
It was evident that the producers were having a difficult time during the Brosnan era, and just decided to give up. The classic Bond films are arguably harder to make than these new rebooted ones. The producers rather explore Bond's character than explore Bond's universe. On top of that, they're making all of these bizarre casting choices, and are pretty much recreating the series in their own vision. I think that they're having too much fun making these new films, it's almost like playing with dolls in a way.

Well, I really hope that audiences get tired of this direction, and that the series suffers a steady decline. Only then will the producers be forced to go back to the classic Bond formula.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by commander0077again »

The Saint 007 wrote:
FormerBondFan wrote:
The Saint 007 wrote:It's really too bad that the producers messed everything up for Brosnan and rebooted the series.
Thankfully, they messed up the reboot with QOS, and I hope Bond 23 will be no different despite being more traditional than the last two.
It was evident that the producers were having a difficult time during the Brosnan era, and just decided to give up. The classic Bond films are arguably harder to make than these new rebooted ones. The producers rather explore Bond's character than explore Bond's universe. On top of that, they're making all of these bizarre casting choices, and are pretty much recreating the series in their own vision. I think that they're having too much fun making these new films, it's almost like playing with dolls in a way.

Well, I really hope that audiences get tired of this direction, and that the series suffers a steady decline. Only then will the producers be forced to go back to the classic Bond formula.
Exceptionally fine shots, The Saint 007! The original Bond universe created itself; I'm not saying they didn't borrow from other films, but they did give Bond uniqueness. As they went along, of course, they tended to play to formula, but it was their own formula. It's like having a favorite composer, artist, author, etc. When they start getting too far off course and not even resembling themselves, the fan says, well, I may as well look at something else, since my (favorite) have thrown away the 'good parts.' The Bond formula means big stories, following Fleming's tradition. That means a big villain; I suppose Fleming's lesser villains were hoods such as in DAF or TSWLM, and the short stories. But even these baddies are memorable. How the present producers have completely missed the boat on the one rule of all good stories : the more horrible (or horrific, as Fleming would say) the villain, the better for the hero who has someone to play against. As one example, TB's (film) Largo, who I personally envision what Blofeld of the books may have resembled. Celi gives an entertaining performace with his eye patch, thick build, "suave" accent: "Because he's Bond!" That, of course, has little meaning in a totally serious film, but it adds to the fun. If you see a photo of him in his white dinner jacket (why, he was outdressing Bond, who didn't get his white jacket until DAF), you immediately recognize hims as the bad guy from TB. But with the latter Craigers, what, I don't even recall the name of the guy with the bloody tears, or any of his 'great lines' if he had any. Honestly, though, I've only seen the films around twice each, and always on DVD; I never would go to the cinema. When they bring in a new Bond, and I hear 00s saying, Ah! We have our James back! Then I'll fork over my popcorn cash.
We could continue on the Bond formula having that wide scope, with Bond fighting in a Fort Knox surrounded by glittering gold, and not in a seedy apartment stairway. Yes, I know that Bond Classic had fights in seedy places, but his lack of seediness made up for it! Unfortunately for the new "Bond" he blends in with the seediness. If someone peeked in from one of the apartments as Craig is battling it out, they would say, "Well, who's the good guy?" With Bond Classic they would know, from the cut of his suit and suave good looks. :martini: If you have the good guy and the bad guy who resemble one another, where's the fun?
A thought just now. What would the Bond producers do with a Zorro remake? They might give him a white horse (if lucky, they could give him a burro), ditch the costume in favor of 'realism' ... make him a struggling lawyer, instead of a spoiled scion with estate. Give him a techno score, and a pirate's cutlass, or maybe an ancient Roman spear. May as well make Zorro blond, too. He didn't receive his education in Madrid, but in Bakersfield. Ditch any beautiful women, too. The only woman around is Senora Bunto, who is the only wit in the movie.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by FormerBondFan »

The Saint 007 wrote:The producers rather explore Bond's character than explore Bond's universe.
Didn't Fleming's novels explore Bond's character.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by The Sweeney »

FormerBondFan wrote:
The Saint 007 wrote:The producers rather explore Bond's character than explore Bond's universe.
Didn't Fleming's novels explore Bond's character.
Yes, very much so. The novels saw everything entirely inside Bond's head. The world around was from Bond's perspective only, so we knew Bond's thoughts, fears, what makes him happy, sad, bored, when he showered, what he wore, enjoyed a meal, drink, etc.

But the danger is (particularly in QoS and Brozza's flicks), the producers are concentrating too much on other characters, (crap ones at that) and almost neglecting Bond to a sideshow, who is there just to perform the action and stunts.

I never feel the writers really have a grasp on Fleming like Maibaum did.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by The Saint 007 »

The Sweeney wrote:
FormerBondFan wrote:
The Saint 007 wrote:The producers rather explore Bond's character than explore Bond's universe.
Didn't Fleming's novels explore Bond's character.
Yes, very much so. The novels saw everything entirely inside Bond's head. The world around was from Bond's perspective only, so we knew Bond's thoughts, fears, what makes him happy, sad, bored, when he showered, what he wore, enjoyed a meal, drink, etc.

But the danger is (particularly in QoS and Brozza's flicks), the producers are concentrating too much on other characters, (crap ones at that) and almost neglecting Bond to a sideshow, who is there just to perform the action and stunts.

I never feel the writers really have a grasp on Fleming like Maibaum did.
Movies and books are completely different things. Not everything in literature translates well on the screen. With books you need to use your imagination, while movies have to entertain multiple people at once. I feel that the producers are focusing too much on Bond's character as well as other characters, and not enough on the actual adventure. Hence that's why I refer to them as espionage soap operas, because they are going far too deep with the character development. I honestly believe that the classic Bond films are more difficult to make than these new ones, which is why the producers are stubbornly refusing to go back to the classic formula. People say that the classic formula is dated and no longer suitable, and will use Die Another Day as a security blanket to justify this. I've seen a video where Michael Wilson says that the formula needed to be changed before things taper off. While I understand that certain changes need to made over time, it doesn't mean you have to throw away the whole formula altogether. I don't think the complaints about Die Another Day were towards the classic Bond formula, but the overall quality, which is why I feel this reboot was completely unnecessary.

The mere fact that EA came up with some better ideas for characters, adventures, gadgets, and so on, for their Bond games at the time not only shows that EA knew more what to do with Brosnan and Bond than the producers, but also that the world of Bond is still very much unexplored. The James Bond of the cinema was what made the character a pop-culture icon worldwide. The Bond films have been the inspiration of various television shows and movies. It's a shame that the producers not only ruined Brosnan's chance of having a better run as Bond, but also abandoned a beloved formula by many all over the world because of their incompetence.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by Mazer Rackham »

The Sweeney wrote:
The Saint 007 wrote:Daltonite Toothpaste, I guess I should also mention that Brosnan did want to take a more darker approach to Bond, but seeing as how poorly Licence To Kill was received by audiences, the producers decided to take a balanced approach instead. So perhaps Brosnan would have been more comfortable with a serious portrayal of Bond as opposed to the approach that was taken, but who knows.
I would have loved it had Brozza appeared in something more dark, like LTK. Sadly he never got the chance, because of the bungling producers steering the lost ship after Cubby's demise.
It's worse than that, as much as I'll hold up Cubby as an example he really let the series down at times. His decisions, mainly nepotism brought the bar down low too many times, good directors and better writing was lost because his stepson was stepping into a role he didn't have the training or chops for.

Moore's era was robbed of several chances to produce truly classic -timeless Bond movies. Cubby made a lot of mistakes if he had held to his guns harder in the Moore - Dalton era the finished product would stand the test of time a little better. No matter Cubby's failings he was a better manager of the frachise than his children by a thousand miles.
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

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I agree completely! 8)
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

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Welcome BrosnanIsBond007! :cheers: :cheers:
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Re: Pierce Brosnan was the best 007

Post by BrosnanIsBond007 »

Thank you! Someone posted a link to the site in the IMdB forum for 'Skyfall', so that's how I got here! I greatly enjoyed Skyfall, btw, but I still miss the Brosnan days - he had the perfect look & the action sequences were amazing!
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