Why Pierce Is Bond?

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Daltonite Toothpaste
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by Daltonite Toothpaste »

Brosnan was a safe pair of hands, and was (and still is) popular. He wouldn't try and do anything with the role, other than playing it safe. But that isn't always best. That was fine for the time, but now, when you compare him to Connery, Lazenby Moore and Dalton, Brosnan comes off as bland by comparison.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by John P. Drake »

I don't think I could agree with that one. As much as I respect Lazenby, he was the most bland of them all, discounting Craig that is. Dalton was more humane and down the earth, which I still like very much, but still isn't my preferred kind of Bond, regardless of how awesome he is. Brosnan did feel like the best of both worlds, them being Connery and Moore, his Character becoming an almost unstoppable generic hero in the secret agent form, which I couldn't help but idolize to some extent.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by Veronica »

Now you can really read negative comments on Skyfall on imdb and some of them are really hilarious-that cianid thing for example.one commented how that was there because they wanted to make villain more cool. "Hey I wouldn't stick him that stupid wig,but then that's just me."
:lol: one commented. Skyfall had a teriffic PR you can not deny that...but why exactly are you prefering two previous ones to Skyfall? I am asking because I just really dislike Casino Royale and everything has been said on QOS.
Elektra just happens to be my favourite character so I like TWINE. It also has Q's goodbye,an incredibly PTS(the opening bankar scene is my favourite) and theme song is great. Wonderful lyrics. And I find Brosnan's performance to be his best here. But there's no denying the faults are glaring... the infamous you-know-who is completely unecessary,most of actions scene fell like they are shoehorned for the sake of it and the ending is completely wrong..
The whole "the best since Connery" did began with Brosnan he got that title even before GoldenEye came out...but I think that whole thing with Craig is just another PR trick. And the only thing Craig and Connery have incommon is the first letter of their surname. While Connery had an unmistakeable charisma Craig just...doesn't. While Connery basically created Bond on the big screen with Craig that kind of Bond dissapeared.
Craig fans compare him to Connery because Connery is the standard and saying that one actor is "the best since Connery" is favourable.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by FormerBondFan »

Daltonite Toothpaste wrote:Brosnan was a safe pair of hands, and was (and still is) popular. He wouldn't try and do anything with the role, other than playing it safe. But that isn't always best. That was fine for the time, but now, when you compare him to Connery, Lazenby Moore and Dalton, Brosnan comes off as bland by comparison.
Actually, Babs is the one who play it safe. Why else would Pierce want to do NM (which really needs a sequel ASAP)?
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by Veronica »

The thing with Lazenby's Bond is that he felt like a decent chap who really wasn't up to the job of a secret agent. I think out them all he was the most humane one. When Draco tells him he should seduce Tracy he reponds with:"You overrestimated me Draco. The thing you are asking is just not for me." Decent,honest,humble even. For me it feels very weird to witness Bond like that. When Tracy hints she knows about the deal between her father and Bond,Bond looks guilty and doesn't even look at Tracy. Then when she walks away he goes after her to sooth her. Lazenby's Bond didn't seem like someone who was in command. I think he did his best job in the last scene-that scene got to me. There was also no painful dialogues like in CR. Lazenby's acting was I think good in the last scene while Craig overreacted in the scene where Vesper dies. Like someone here said:"If Craig is a major acting powerhouse then Lazenby is a multiple Oscar winner."
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by Daltonite Toothpaste »

FormerBondFan wrote:
Daltonite Toothpaste wrote:Brosnan was a safe pair of hands, and was (and still is) popular. He wouldn't try and do anything with the role, other than playing it safe. But that isn't always best. That was fine for the time, but now, when you compare him to Connery, Lazenby Moore and Dalton, Brosnan comes off as bland by comparison.
Actually, Babs is the one who play it safe. Why else would Pierce want to do NM (which really needs a sequel ASAP)?
Broccoli didn't play Bond, Brosnan did, so he takes some of the blame. No one forced him to take on the role of Bond, especially when he completed his 3 film contract, before that optional fourth film. Brosnan might have been good in TNM (I have not seen it), but his Bond was the way it was meant to be. He was popular through Remington Steele, and that is pretty much what his Bond was.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by John P. Drake »

That is only a myth, my friend. Brosnan's Bond is nothing like Remington Steele. The latter is a comical family guy who would let people laugh. Bond was a cold hearted Bas***d who would have done anything to get the job done. Just because they had the same haircut and likeness, doesn't mean they are the same. Brosnan's Bond cracked jokes the way Connery would have most of the times. And as for his role in the series, Broccoli rejected his ideas when he wanted Bond to go darker, yet he wanted to stay because he was the only one who loved the character. So in result, I cannot blame him nor can find a single reason to blame him for anything.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by John P. Drake »

Veronica wrote:The thing with Lazenby's Bond is that he felt like a decent chap who really wasn't up to the job of a secret agent. I think out them all he was the most humane one. When Draco tells him he should seduce Tracy he reponds with:"You overrestimated me Draco. The thing you are asking is just not for me." Decent,honest,humble even. For me it feels very weird to witness Bond like that. When Tracy hints she knows about the deal between her father and Bond,Bond looks guilty and doesn't even look at Tracy. Then when she walks away he goes after her to sooth her. Lazenby's Bond didn't seem like someone who was in command. I think he did his best job in the last scene-that scene got to me. There was also no painful dialogues like in CR. Lazenby's acting was I think good in the last scene while Craig overreacted in the scene where Vesper dies. Like someone here said:"If Craig is a major acting powerhouse then Lazenby is a multiple Oscar winner."
You're right about that, Veronica. But, then again, I wouldn't like to see Bond being vulnerable. It's not the kind of image I associated Bond with ever since I saw Roger Moore for the first time in The Spy Who Loved Me, as well as Pierce Brosnan in Tomorrow Never Dies. Sure, he should be expressing his concern on a more humane subject, showing some moral behaviour and principals (like Moore did in FYEO when it came to Bibi), but I prefer him to be stoic when comes to emotional interaction. Sure, the Bond of the novels was depressed at times, reluctant to get back to work, but the books aren't the reason for why I'm a Bond fan, I'd like to point that out.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by Veronica »

John P. Drake wrote:That is only a myth, my friend. Brosnan's Bond is nothing like Remington Steele. The latter is a comical family guy who would let people laugh. Bond was a cold hearted Bas***d who would have done anything to get the job done. Just because they had the same haircut and likeness, doesn't mean they are the same. Brosnan's Bond cracked jokes the way Connery would have most of the times. And as for his role in the series, Broccoli rejected his ideas when he wanted Bond to go darker, yet he wanted to stay because he was the only one who loved the character. So in result, I cannot blame him nor can find a single reason to blame him for anything.
It is true that he wanted to do more with Bond. To kind of question what is behind Bond and all that.
The truth is Eon wasn't really confident about it all. In each of his films they wanted to add something personal to the plot. In DAD that revenge plot from the beginning is forgotten. In TWINE I think everything was set up nicely but you could feel they weren't 100% confident about it.
The ending(no one seems to think about Elektra anymore and she was the force of the whole story anyway-M doesn't seem particulary stressed out she was close to Elektra and her father,Bond seems to forgot about her even though the whole idea was that he fell for her) and the execution is lacking in several places(the conclusion to Elektra story).
As for TND I never felt that the whole Paris thing was that important anyway. Like M said Bond "pumped her for information" and saying "she got too close to him" was a part of it. IMO Bond would never tell that to a woman directly.
GoldenEye hited all the strides successfully. I don't know why was dinasour in the dialogue though. Plus that line "One the train,when you told him to shoot me and that I mean nothing to you,did you mean it?" I don't know what's with that line...
Last edited by Veronica on Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by Veronica »

John P. Drake wrote:
Veronica wrote:The thing with Lazenby's Bond is that he felt like a decent chap who really wasn't up to the job of a secret agent. I think out them all he was the most humane one. When Draco tells him he should seduce Tracy he reponds with:"You overrestimated me Draco. The thing you are asking is just not for me." Decent,honest,humble even. For me it feels very weird to witness Bond like that. When Tracy hints she knows about the deal between her father and Bond,Bond looks guilty and doesn't even look at Tracy. Then when she walks away he goes after her to sooth her. Lazenby's Bond didn't seem like someone who was in command. I think he did his best job in the last scene-that scene got to me. There was also no painful dialogues like in CR. Lazenby's acting was I think good in the last scene while Craig overreacted in the scene where Vesper dies. Like someone here said:"If Craig is a major acting powerhouse then Lazenby is a multiple Oscar winner."
You're right about that, Veronica. But, then again, I wouldn't like to see Bond being vulnerable. It's not the kind of image I associated Bond with ever since I saw Roger Moore for the first time in The Spy Who Loved Me, as well as Pierce Brosnan in Tomorrow Never Dies. Sure, he should be expressing his concern on a more humane subject, showing some moral behaviour and principals (like Moore did in FYEO when it came to Bibi), but I prefer him to be stoic when comes to emotional interaction. Sure, the Bond of the novels was depressed at times, reluctant to get back to work, but the books aren't the reason for why I'm a Bond fan, I'd like to point that out.
Interesting thing is that both movies you mentioned have one or two introspective moments-in TSWLM the scene where Amasova mentions Tracy-check out Bond's reaction and the scene where he confesses he killed her lover.
In TND the hotel scene with Paris and when he finds her. What lessers the impression for me is the fact I find Teri Hatcher to be miscasted for the role plus the whole character was potrayed as a bored throphy wife. And Teri Hatcher only adds to that so I couldn't buy Paris as some kind of important woman of Bond's past whether they were aiming at it or not.
I knew Bond since I was three years old-I always knew him as a cool,sophisticated,charismatic secret agent. More introspective moments could or could not be there...if done right-good. If you can't do it-let it go.
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by John P. Drake »

Well, the thing is, he was only looking for the chance to get even, which is different than revenge. Sure, Colonel Moon insulted his dignity and integrity, but Bond knows better than that. To take matters more professionally. It's the only way to succeed. However, if he was more focused, he would have found out who the traitor was, the person who set him up. Miranda. That Holmesian angle to deduce who was involved beneath the contacts, associated with which organization and all, should have been put forward to. So, we would have guessed quickly that he should have looked inside his organization, first. The CIA wasn't involved, nor the Beijing. So, who? None other than MI-6.

Don't get me wrong. I love Elektra, and TWINE was it should have been, I don't know how I could have changed it, but again, it isn't a Bond movie I'd look at. Still, I appreciate it for being good for what it is. Just wish the soundtrack was better and less Godzilla. David Arnold should have stuck with the TND formula. Perfect way to update Barry's influence and not add idiotic overbeats in the music. Now, speaking of the soundtracks, DAD was amazing with the musical cues, literally amazing. But again, those overbeats (especially Bond's entrance to Iceland) has ruined a beautifully executed melody cords.

I think I can understand the romance between Natalya and Bond, she wasn't asking that question to find out whether Bond loved her or not, which wasn't the case anyways. She simply asked him to find out if he was honest with her, or cared for her as a friend after the intimacy they have developed with one another. In TND, Paris Carver was originally brought forward as Sylvia Trench, but for some reason, that aspect has been changed long before the scripts were written. Like you said, Teri Hatcher was miscast, and rumour has it, her co-workers hate her all, and that she slapped Brosnan off-set on more than one occasion. Brosnan suggested Monica Belucci for the role beforehand, yet they rejected him. And Craig takes credit for being 'creative' with the franchise?

Sure, in TSWLM and TND, Bond did show some emotions, even if they were brief. But, as a kid, I didn't notice them, and only took them as an everyday action hero flick that I always wanted to be in. It wasn't until years I started matching the chronology and more character depth in the Bond films, but heck, they were more exciting back then when I kept seeing things black and white. Really. :D Personally, I became a fan of Bond at the age of four with a first, slight glimpse at two Roger Moore Bond's; the plane chase during the pre-credits sequence in Octopussy and the entire pre-title sequence of For Your Eyes Only, thanks to my father. Heck, ever since then, I looked up and said... I want to be Bond! So it began... :D
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Re: Why Pierce Is Bond?

Post by Veronica »

I get you totally,TND is in fact the first Bond movie I ever saw but as a kid I didn't remember that scene with Paris I remembered the ending with Wai Lin and Bond as well Danish lesson scene :lol: Monica Belluci infact tested for the role of Paris and she IMO fits that character(or the way I see that character should have been-not a bored throphy wofe).
First-the looks. She has the looks and aura of a woman of Bond's past. Teri Hatcher belongs to tv drama soap opera where she in the end really did end up(and appearabtly co-workers from THW hated her as well) with both her looks and acting skills. Now really I don't know how much of an actress Monica is since I just saw her in one movie and in that movie she said three lines(Malena).
My opinion is that the studio had a say who will be cast because in all Brosnan films(except GoldenEye) actresses were cast because they were Americans and were at the time were very popular(go figure,but none of these actresses ever make the list of the best Bond girls-one frequently ranks as the worst). I guess they saw America as the most important market. Eh. I just need to remember what was the reason they said why they casted Richards-"because we wanted to bring younger audience" the fact that it was a Bond movie in question wasn't enough? Really.
Maybe you are right about Natalya and Bond. I am not sure. hmmm.
As for soundtracks I think DAD was quite good in that. As you said those overbeats are wrong(especially when we see Bond driving to the ice palace).
I think TWINE is good as well. I like that "mysterious" tune when Bond tries to access Elektra's file. I also liked "Welcome to Baku"(and my favourite from DAD is "Welcome to Cuba"). Great mix of oriental sounds and instrumental part of a theme song. And I really like "Elektra's theme". I read that's David Arnolds favourite as well. He said he needed a theme that will capture the characteer of woman that Bond falls for.
But overral his TND soundtrack is the best.
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