Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

A place to discuss the latest in Bond News.
Post Reply
User avatar
James
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 1593
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Favorite Movies: George A Romero's Dawn Of The Dead
Silent Running
Harold and Maude
Location: Europe and Outer Space

Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by James »

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timst ... -the-pity/

Pity the poor readers who are too young to remember when Bond was camp. Imagine the scene. Roger Moore is necking champagne beneath a bear skin rug with a ditzy East German blonde called Ivana Goodtime. M calls on a phone shaped like an English bulldog. “Get your skies and hurry to Dubai, Bond,” says the bitter old grammar school boy. “The businessman Hugo von Whipcord is trying to destroy the Earth using the gravitational pull of the moon.”
“I’ll be with you in a jiffy,” says Bond, slipping on his magnetic socks. “I just need to finish something off here.”
“That’s 007 for you,” says M to Miss Flexible, his sex-starved Mi5 secretary. “Always hard at it.”

Some of us are also old enough to remember when John Cleese was funny, and this week the Monty Python legend gave a damning indictment of how unamusing modern Bond has become. “I did two movies,” he explains “and then I believe that they decided that the tone they needed was that of the Bourne action movies, which are very gritty and humourless.” He’s entirely right, as the three Daniel Craig movies confirm. Whereas Roger Moore would celebrate decapitating Hugo von Whipcord with a witty pun (“No need to lose your head”), Craig would probably check into anger management. And Cleese makes a wider observation about direction of Western cinema that is worth pondering: “The big money was coming from Asia, from the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, where the audiences go to watch the action sequences, and that’s why in my opinion the action sequences go on for too long, and it’s a fundamental flaw.” In a sense, James Bond is a victim of globalisation. Don’t be surprised to see him hanging around the dole office in a safari jacket complaining about his lack of transferable skills. “James Bond will return in Licence to be a Street Performer!” Or “Diamonds are for Pawning.”

Defenders of the new movies argue that Daniel Craig’s Bond has returned to the spirit of the books, as though integrity to source material is what makes great movies. But who would actually want that? What works well as a piece of 1950s pulp fiction on the page doesn’t necessarily translate onto the screen – otherwise Casino Royale would’ve featured several days of our hero getting drunk in his hotel room. Instead, the filmmakers of the 1960s wisely chose to reimagine Bond as a post-imperial piece of camp nostalgia. He could refight all the battles that we lost and win them this time, making him a thinner, wittier Rambo. The emphasis was upon sex and spectacle; PG-rated fun for all the family so that no one would miss out of all the joyous bloodletting. Oddly some critics look back on all the Plenty O’Tooles and Xenia Onatopps (real names) and are embarrassed by the campery. They shouldn’t be: these were some of Britain’s most successful foreign exports and they kept United Artists afloat long after they lost so much money on turkeys like Heaven’s Gate. For many years, Bond saw us through industrial disputes and national bankruptcies.

Alas the producers decided to move in a different direction in the new millennium. Perhaps to reach out to non-English speaking audiences, but probably just because they saw the cash being raked in by things like Bourne and decided to chase that zeitgeist instead. Which is a tragedy because it doesn’t quite work. On the one hand, Bond is still too spectacular and silly to be Bourne, which has a gritty realism that feels like international politics playing out in real time. On the other hand, trying to be all Scandinavian and dark has meant that Bond is no longer zany in the manner that it once was. Put it this way: Daniel Craig’s Bond could be any other action hero out there given how much the Britishness and kitsch has been stripped away. Doubtless the next man to play the part will be American, and he’ll take on the world with a super fit body squeezed into a half thong mankini. You'd never see Roger Moore wearing one of those. Not for all the Martini in China.

But you would see Roger's Bond make love to a woman, kill her and then move onto the next sexpot with barely a flicker of the eyebrow. For while Craig's Bond is emotional, there was something sociopathic about the polish of the old one that gave him an almost erotic edge of barely suppressed violence. Maybe the more juvenile Bonds were more adult than the contemporary offering?

As he confronts Hugo von Whipcord aboard his burning satellite surrounded by his army of genetically pure cyborgs (have you noticed that all Bond villains had a surprisingly racially diverse staff? Truly they were equal opportunity Nazis), James twists his pelvis and fires a poisoned dart from his electronic jock strap. Whipcord explodes into flames: “He always was a little hot under the collar”.

Miss Hotstuff van Boobenladen crashes into Bond’s arms. “Take me back to Earth, James," she whispers.
“Not just yet, darling. I’ve always wanted to join the 300,000 mile high club…”
"I can't do that superhero stuff" Daniel Craig
User avatar
James
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 1593
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Favorite Movies: George A Romero's Dawn Of The Dead
Silent Running
Harold and Maude
Location: Europe and Outer Space

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by James »

Btw, here is the Cleese article they mention. Sorry if someone has already posted any of this elsewhere.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-06- ... rne-movies

John Cleese: 'I stopped doing James Bond films because they want to replicate Bourne movies'

Cleese says his turn as madcap inventor Q ended because producers were pandering to Asian audiences, which he claims don't appreciate “the subtle British humour or the class jokes

Monty Python star John Cleese says he stopped appearing as the inventor Q in the James Bond films because the producers wanted to replicate the tone of the Bourne action films.

Cleese tells this week’s Radio Times that he no longer appears in the movies because they were pandering to audiences in the far East who wanted a more direct form of action movie – and were less keen on what he calls “the subtle British humour or the class jokes”.

“I did two James Bond movies [1999’s The World Is Not Enough, and 2002’s Die Another Day, playing Q], and then I believe that they decided that the tone they needed was that of the Bourne action movies, which are very gritty and humourless.

“Also the big money was coming from Asia, from the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, where the audiences go to watch the action sequences, and that’s why in my opinion the action sequences go on for too long, and it’s a fundamental flaw. The audiences in Asia are not going for the subtle British humour or the class jokes.”

Cleese does not make it clear whether he walked or was pushed from the role but his comments cast a fascinating light on the often secretive world of casting for the Bond films by the producers Eon. It also shows that he is probably not a fan of the Bourne films in which Matt Damon plays the CIA operative.

In his two James Bond appearances, Cleese amused 007 fans with his surreal turn as the successor to Q, the inventor played by the late Desmond Llewelyn.

Cleese, who is gearing up for a stage comeback appearance with his fellow Monty Python stars at London's O2 Arena next month, made his first cameo in the 1999 film The World is Not Enough as the assistant to Llewelyn's Q. During his appearance Pierce Brosnan’s Bond jokingly wonders whether Cleese's character should be called ‘R’.

Llewelyn, who appeared in every Bond film between 1963 and 1999 with the exception of the 1973 film Live and Let Die which does not feature Q, died in 1999 following a car crash.

This meant that Cleese appeared by himself in the gadget scenes in the next film, the 2002 movie Die Another Day (see clip below) in which he was given the name Q and had clearly taken over the role of quartermaster of the MI6 technology lab.

However the character was dropped for the next two films, the 2006 film Casino Royale and the 2008 film Quantum of Solace (2008).

When the character next surfaced in the 2012 film Skyfall he was played by Ben Whishaw.
"I can't do that superhero stuff" Daniel Craig
User avatar
Omega
0010
Posts: 7303
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:01 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: TLD LTK GE TND TWINE DAD OHMSS
Favorite Movies: Gladiator
John Wick
Pacific Rim
LOTR trilogy
RED
Kingsman
X-Men First Class
X-Men Days of Futures Past
MI Rogue Nation
Location: the lost city
Contact:

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Omega »

Wow printed stories that I agree with! Does this mean we are not the fringe resistance any more?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
............ :007:
User avatar
The Saint 007
0013
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:16 am
Favorite Bond Movie: The Spy Who Loved Me, A View To A Kill, Goldfinger, GoldenEye, For Your Eyes Only, Moonraker, Octopussy, Thunderball

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by The Saint 007 »

Omega wrote:Wow printed stories that I agree with! Does this mean we are not the fringe resistance any more?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
While there seems to be more people not as leery of voicing their opinions against the current direction of Bond than there was a little earlier in the Craig era, particularly after the success of Casino Royale, there's still plenty of resistance you can see just by looking at the comments. Got to love the guy who said they should remake all the Bond films after Goldfinger because they are not like the books. :roll:
Image
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12524
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Kristatos »

This at least the third writer who has written an article like this in the Telegraph (our own Scashman being the first). Given the extent to which British newspapers are mouthpieces for their proprietors, it makes me wonder if there's some hidden agenda here. After all, in the words of Fleming himself: "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time is enemy action" (EON's enemies in this case, not ours).
"He's the one that doesn't smile" - Queen Elizabeth II on Daniel Craig
User avatar
Blowfeld
Ministry of Defence
Ministry of Defence
Posts: 3195
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:03 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Goldfinger
For Your Eyes only
The Living Daylights
Location: the world

Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Blowfeld »

At some point the counter-counter culture has to have its day.

Un-Bond Bond is kewl eventually has to give way to real Bond is better.

By the way Cleese was one of the few actors involved with 007 to talk openly about how dreadfully EON treated the actors waiting on them to start production before it was all tossed in the rubbish bin.
Image
"Those were the days when we still associated Bond with suave, old school actors such as Sean Connery and Roger Moore,"
"Daniel didn't have a hint of suave about him," - Patsy Palmer
User avatar
Daltonite Toothpaste
Single O
Posts: 883
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 2:35 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: The Living Daylights, Licence To Kill, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, From Russia With Love, Tomorrow Never Dies & For Your Eyes Only.
Favorite Movies: American Mary, Deadlier Than The Male, Dracula, Saved, The Big Sleep, The French Connection, Under The Sand

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Daltonite Toothpaste »

I thought that Cleese, or rather Q, was dropped.

I liked his sarcastic edge, "there's always an excuse, isn't there, double-o-zero".
Image
User avatar
Blowfeld
Ministry of Defence
Ministry of Defence
Posts: 3195
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:03 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Goldfinger
For Your Eyes only
The Living Daylights
Location: the world

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Blowfeld »

This is what they said 2006 to 2012.

As I understand the story Cleese, Dench, Samantha Bond were all waiting for the call, which means they put off project they are offered waiting on EON.

Dench was ruining around during 2005 telling the fans they can calm down because Pierce was coming back probably what EON told her except as we know now Madam Barbara was already trying to get Daniel signed. Which is probably what started the rumours that got Dame Dench to say Pierce was coming back.
Image
"Those were the days when we still associated Bond with suave, old school actors such as Sean Connery and Roger Moore,"
"Daniel didn't have a hint of suave about him," - Patsy Palmer
User avatar
commander0077again
Commander
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:56 am
Favorite Bond Movie: OHMSS YOLT GOLDFINGER LALD FYEO GOLDENEYE
Favorite Movies: OUR MAN FLINT THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD/ERROL FLYNN CASABLANCA ZORRO FILMS / TV SHOW
Location: Hong Kong by the Sea

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by commander0077again »

James! A truly suave commentary and raised eyebrows! I wonder if the Asian market really prefers just blind action with a dead-fish-eye leading 'Bond'? It's fairly certain that the original Bond -- handsome, a bit nuts but who laughed at his own jokes -- would still bring in the crowds worldwide. Asian audiences (and international) like a good, thrilling story to go with their action. :cake:
You move very well for a dead man, Mister Bond

Kill him!
Kill Bond! Now!!!
User avatar
Omega
0010
Posts: 7303
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:01 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: TLD LTK GE TND TWINE DAD OHMSS
Favorite Movies: Gladiator
John Wick
Pacific Rim
LOTR trilogy
RED
Kingsman
X-Men First Class
X-Men Days of Futures Past
MI Rogue Nation
Location: the lost city
Contact:

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Omega »

I look at Dalton's movies and realize they have not come close to the locations and story those movies had even Brosnan's last two had the adventure with a mission feel. Craig's movies are action movies not adventure. Adventure movie tell a story keeping interest through story telling action movies can be rearranged cutting sections of the plot out and still be more or less the same. This is what bond is now with Craig.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
............ :007:
User avatar
Kristatos
OO Moderator
OO Moderator
Posts: 12524
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:26 pm
Location: St. Cyril's

Re: Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Kristatos »

Except there's not much action in them. QOS does, though you can't see what's going on, but CR and SF had maybe 3 action sequences apiece. It's why I don't altogether buy John Cleese's theory about them being aimed at the Asian market. If they were, they'd be more like DAD, I'd have thought.

Sent from my GT-S7500 using Tapatalk 2
"He's the one that doesn't smile" - Queen Elizabeth II on Daniel Craig
User avatar
Omega
0010
Posts: 7303
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:01 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: TLD LTK GE TND TWINE DAD OHMSS
Favorite Movies: Gladiator
John Wick
Pacific Rim
LOTR trilogy
RED
Kingsman
X-Men First Class
X-Men Days of Futures Past
MI Rogue Nation
Location: the lost city
Contact:

Bond, James Bond? He stopped being fun long ago

Post by Omega »

For movies made in Asia these are bland. For a bond movie I thought Craig's striped out the fun part of being an adventure. What I remember best of them is the action which could be rearranged front to back and still play the same. Maybe it's the action sequences are more important since the story is duller with a dull leading man. The other bonds could make checking in at a Hotel seem interesting.

Maybe it's not down to the action maybes it's they Americanized bond so much he's like any other action star. Which unless they are the rock they usually lack personality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
............ :007:
Post Reply