Tis as I feared

[james stock]

The difference being, of course, that when Fleming wrote them, torture was something the villains did.

They love Craig so much Kris, that even if Bond goes into the torture territory which was very unFlemingesque they'll defend him to their death. They are Fleming fans yet they like Bond being modernized, in style with extremely athletic modern action heroes who wears casual clothes (yet they call DAD uneven). Maybe if Bond was played by a Donald Pleasance look-alike and portrayed Bond as a serious action hero, they'll still love him.

Violent, gritty, serious I can cope with (and love). Casual clothes I can live with (see LTK). Tough looking guy as Bond rather than smooth/handsome - perfect in my book! Athletic modern action hero I can live with. Torture scenes, even better!

But OTT gadgets, silly, laughable, embarrassing one-liners during a 2-way conversation, totally unrealistic storylines, ridiculous action, invisible cars and bad, bad BAD CGI I cannot live with.

Didn't Casino Royale have its share of ridiculous action? I'd hardly call the story realistic or the dialogue great either. I have no armour left...you've stripped it from me. Who talks like that?

Agreed! Royale had some of the feeblest dialogue i have heard this side of the Star Wars prequels except the Star Wars movies are supposed to have bad dialogue. I sized you up the minute we meet????? lol and the little finger joke. Terrible

[The Sweeney]

The difference being, of course, that when Fleming wrote them, torture was something the villains did.

They love Craig so much Kris, that even if Bond goes into the torture territory which was very unFlemingesque they'll defend him to their death. They are Fleming fans yet they like Bond being modernized, in style with extremely athletic modern action heroes who wears casual clothes (yet they call DAD uneven). Maybe if Bond was played by a Donald Pleasance look-alike and portrayed Bond as a serious action hero, they'll still love him.

Violent, gritty, serious I can cope with (and love). Casual clothes I can live with (see LTK). Tough looking guy as Bond rather than smooth/handsome - perfect in my book! Athletic modern action hero I can live with. Torture scenes, even better!

But OTT gadgets, silly, laughable, embarrassing one-liners during a 2-way conversation, totally unrealistic storylines, ridiculous action, invisible cars and bad, bad BAD CGI I cannot live with.

Didn't Casino Royale have its share of ridiculous action? I'd hardly call the story realistic or the dialogue great either. I have no armour left...you've stripped it from me. Who talks like that?

Agreed! Royale had some of the feeblest dialogue i have heard this side of the Star Wars prequels except the Star Wars movies are supposed to have bad dialogue. I sized you up the minute we meet????? lol and the little finger joke. Terrible

Whereas lines such as -

`James, I'll be half the girl I used to be'.
`I think I got the thrust of it.'
`I don't like c**k-fights'.
`I thought Christmas only comes once a year.'
`It's what keeps me alive'....`It's what keeps you alone.' etc. etc.

are instant classics, right.....?

[The Sweeney]

The difference being, of course, that when Fleming wrote them, torture was something the villains did.

They love Craig so much Kris, that even if Bond goes into the torture territory which was very unFlemingesque they'll defend him to their death. They are Fleming fans yet they like Bond being modernized, in style with extremely athletic modern action heroes who wears casual clothes (yet they call DAD uneven). Maybe if Bond was played by a Donald Pleasance look-alike and portrayed Bond as a serious action hero, they'll still love him.

Violent, gritty, serious I can cope with (and love). Casual clothes I can live with (see LTK). Tough looking guy as Bond rather than smooth/handsome - perfect in my book! Athletic modern action hero I can live with. Torture scenes, even better!

But OTT gadgets, silly, laughable, embarrassing one-liners during a 2-way conversation, totally unrealistic storylines, ridiculous action, invisible cars and bad, bad BAD CGI I cannot live with.

Didn't Casino Royale have its share of ridiculous action? I'd hardly call the story realistic or the dialogue great either. I have no armour left...you've stripped it from me. Who talks like that?

So you think the action in CR is faaar more ridiculous than seen in the previous 20 Bond films......

[English Agent]

Blimey

This thread is getting pretty ridiculous!

EA

[Jedi007]

Violent, gritty, serious I can cope with (and love). Casual clothes I can live with (see LTK). Tough looking guy as Bond rather than smooth/handsome - perfect in my book! Athletic modern action hero I can live with. Torture scenes, even better!

But OTT gadgets, silly, laughable, embarrassing one-liners during a 2-way conversation, totally unrealistic storylines, ridiculous action, invisible cars and bad, bad BAD CGI I cannot live with.

An attack against Brosnan again, as if he's directed, wrote the script and PRODUCE his films himself.

Casual clothes? It's okay if he's a narcotics police officer, a spy for lowly drug pushers. But that's not the case. He infiltrates high society, and that's why he must look more than a ganglord bodyguard unlike the current ruined version of James Bond.

For the case of LTK, Bond only wears casual clothes when he's checking out Milton's place and when he meets up with Pam. Overall, Bond's still in his suit, even when he's fighting with Sanchez's henchmen.

So you think the action in CR is faaar more ridiculous than seen in the previous 20 Bond films......

CR's supposed to be a serious film isn't it? Unlike some from the past films that are made for light entertainment. But for a so-called serious film, action scenes are very unrealistic. (See my post on DC as Bond Section to see what I am talking about.)

[The Sweeney]

Violent, gritty, serious I can cope with (and love). Casual clothes I can live with (see LTK). Tough looking guy as Bond rather than smooth/handsome - perfect in my book! Athletic modern action hero I can live with. Torture scenes, even better!

But OTT gadgets, silly, laughable, embarrassing one-liners during a 2-way conversation, totally unrealistic storylines, ridiculous action, invisible cars and bad, bad BAD CGI I cannot live with.

An attack against Brosnan again, as if he's directed, wrote the script and PRODUCE his films himself.

Not an attack on Brozza. An attack on DAD, as DAD was mentioned in the original post I was responding to.

Casual clothes? It's okay if he's a narcotics police officer, a spy for lowly drug pushers. But that's not the case. He infiltrates high society, and that's why he must look more than a ganglord bodyguard unlike the current ruined version of James Bond.

For the case of LTK, Bond only wears casual clothes when he's checking out Milton's place and when he meets up with Pam. Overall, Bond's still in his suit, even when he's fighting with Sanchez's henchmen.

We see Bond in a tux throughout much of the film, Bond in a few suits (even a 3-piece). And check the Fleming novels. Bond often wore comfortable, casual clothes, rather than tuxedos.

CR's supposed to be a serious film isn't it? Unlike some from the past films that are made for light entertainment. But for a so-called serious film, action scenes are very unrealistic. (See my post on DC as Bond Section to see what I am talking about.)

Fair enough. You didn't think the action was portrayed as realistic. For the first half, I partly agree with you. I'd like to see more realism with the action in Bond 22, more blood, more grittiness, more Bourne-type action. But the action in CR is still portrayed in a more realistic vain since LTK in 1989.

[John Drake]

The difference being, of course, that when Fleming wrote them, torture was something the villains did.

They love Craig so much Kris, that even if Bond goes into the torture territory which was very unFlemingesque they'll defend him to their death. They are Fleming fans yet they like Bond being modernized, in style with extremely athletic modern action heroes who wears casual clothes (yet they call DAD uneven). Maybe if Bond was played by a Donald Pleasance look-alike and portrayed Bond as a serious action hero, they'll still love him.

Violent, gritty, serious I can cope with (and love). Casual clothes I can live with (see LTK). Tough looking guy as Bond rather than smooth/handsome - perfect in my book! Athletic modern action hero I can live with. Torture scenes, even better!

But OTT gadgets, silly, laughable, embarrassing one-liners during a 2-way conversation, totally unrealistic storylines, ridiculous action, invisible cars and bad, bad BAD CGI I cannot live with.

Didn't Casino Royale have its share of ridiculous action? I'd hardly call the story realistic or the dialogue great either. I have no armour left...you've stripped it from me. Who talks like that?

So you think the action in CR is faaar more ridiculous than seen in the previous 20 Bond films......

I think you've set up a false opposition...again.

[The Sweeney]

They love Craig so much Kris, that even if Bond goes into the torture territory which was very unFlemingesque they'll defend him to their death. They are Fleming fans yet they like Bond being modernized, in style with extremely athletic modern action heroes who wears casual clothes (yet they call DAD uneven). Maybe if Bond was played by a Donald Pleasance look-alike and portrayed Bond as a serious action hero, they'll still love him.

Violent, gritty, serious I can cope with (and love). Casual clothes I can live with (see LTK). Tough looking guy as Bond rather than smooth/handsome - perfect in my book! Athletic modern action hero I can live with. Torture scenes, even better!

But OTT gadgets, silly, laughable, embarrassing one-liners during a 2-way conversation, totally unrealistic storylines, ridiculous action, invisible cars and bad, bad BAD CGI I cannot live with.

Didn't Casino Royale have its share of ridiculous action? I'd hardly call the story realistic or the dialogue great either. I have no armour left...you've stripped it from me. Who talks like that?

So you think the action in CR is faaar more ridiculous than seen in the previous 20 Bond films......

I think you've set up a false opposition...again.

But you still didn't answer it.....

[John Drake]

I don't think you got my reference but don't worry. Carry on being one-dimensional.

[The Sweeney]

I don't think you got my reference but don't worry. Carry on being one-dimensional.

Hello Pot, meet kettle. Apparently it has been calling you black.....

[Jedi007]

Whereas lines such as -

`James, I'll be half the girl I used to be'.
`I think I got the thrust of it.'
`I don't like c**k-fights'.
`I thought Christmas only comes once a year.'
`It's what keeps me alive'....`It's what keeps you alone.' etc. etc.

are instant classics, right.....?

You're not attacking Brosnan with this?

I only mentioned DAD in the original post because I was comparing its unevenness (some reviewers said as it tried to darken the drama but elevate the story to fantasy) to some people who are "fans" of the 1960s classical, gentlemanly, Cold War Fleming Bond but likes Bond modernized, instyle with athletic modern action heroes like John McClane, Jason Bourne, and Jack Bauer.

[The Sweeney]

Guess I am just trying to clarify peoples position on this. If they think the lines in CR are so awful, what are their opinions on the lines I mentioned, the bad lines in the Brosnan and Moore flicks.

Do they think these lines are bad too, or do they think these lines are great? If they think the lines in DAD are bad too, then fair enough, but if they think the lines in DAD are great, then a massive big hypocrite warning will start sounding out across this thread......

[James]

I think they should remake Die Another Day with Daniel Craig. I'm not convinced he can handle a good double entendre.

[The Sweeney]

I think they should remake Die Another Day with Daniel Craig. I'm not convinced he can handle a good double entendre.

I'd stll hate the film with a passion, regardless of who was in it.

I guess this may be difficult for some of you on here to understand....

[carl stromberg]

I think they should remake Die Another Day with Daniel Craig. I'm not convinced he can handle a good double entendre.

Good idea. They could use that adaptive camouflage system on the Aston Martin to make Daniel Craig invisible.

Oh, come on. Someone had to do that joke.

[carl stromberg]

I think they should remake Die Another Day with Daniel Craig. I'm not convinced he can handle a good double entendre.

I'd stll hate the film with a passion, regardless of who was in it.

I guess this may be difficult for some of you on here to understand....

Not really. I don't think anyone on here thinks that Die Another Day was Goldfinger...or that Die Another Day 2 was the only alternative to Craig.

Casino Royale has been surrounded by more pretentious twaddle than any other Bond film so I don't think it's unfair to look at it in that light.

[The Sweeney]

I think they should remake Die Another Day with Daniel Craig. I'm not convinced he can handle a good double entendre.

I'd stll hate the film with a passion, regardless of who was in it.

I guess this may be difficult for some of you on here to understand....

Not really. I don't think anyone on here thinks that Die Another Day was Goldfinger...or that Die Another Day 2 was the only alternative to Craig.

Casino Royale has been surrounded by more pretentious twaddle than any other Bond film so I don't think it's unfair to look at it in that light.

Fair comment, Carl.

[Commander 0077]

Whereas lines such as -

`James, I'll be half the girl I used to be'.
`I think I got the thrust of it.'
`I don't like c**k-fights'.
`I thought Christmas only comes once a year.'
`It's what keeps me alive'....`It's what keeps you alone.' etc. etc.

are instant classics, right.....?

You're not attacking Brosnan with this?

I only mentioned DAD in the original post because I was comparing its unevenness (some reviewers said as it tried to darken the drama but elevate the story to fantasy) to some people who are "fans" of the 1960s classical, gentlemanly, Cold War Fleming Bond but likes Bond modernized, instyle with athletic modern action heroes like John McClane, Jason Bourne, and Jack Bauer.

Don't forget, DAD had one of the classic lines :
"I don't approve what they do here."
"Tell it to the concierge."

[Terry]

...or that Die Another Day 2 was the only alternative to Craig.

That was one aspect to CR I didn't understand. The idea that it was either Craig or another silly film. There are actually other good actors out there and some of them have the advantage of looking like Bond.

[Kristatos]

...or that Die Another Day 2 was the only alternative to Craig.

That was one aspect to CR I didn't understand. The idea that it was either Craig or another silly film. There are actually other good actors out there and some of them have the advantage of looking like Bond.

Yup, as I've said before (apologies to the old lags for the repetition, but we've had some new recruits recently), Purvis and Wade's first draft of CR's script sounds like it would have made a better movie than the finished product. Not only was there no reboot to tick off those of us who didn't think the series needed to go back to the drawing board, but it actually had a serious theme - Bond discovering, through his love for Vesper, the value of the society he is protecting. The redrafted, Haggisised movie didn't really have any such weighty themes. It was middlebrow self-importance masquerading as depth.

Had the first draft script been filmed with Bale or Purefoy or (more likely)Worthington as Bond, I would probably have been cheerleading for the film as enthusiastically as Sweeney or Stocks or Katied.