Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Mon May 27, 2013 6:29 pm

bjmdds wrote:The Khan portrayal was excellent.


You're talking Ben's part, right?
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Mon May 27, 2013 8:33 pm

bjmdds wrote:I am surprised Shatner was not used yet but he died in Generations, so how can they?. The Khan portrayal was excellent :!: I enjoyed both ST films but Abrams must keep more to the overall script with Spock's personality and not try to make him emotional over things and not Uhura's boy toy. DC never was, is not, nor will ever be, Bond, so that's not even open for discussion. The dolt must be replaced. FBF, how do you size up TMOS in 3 weeks, about the same box office as ST 2, and nowhere near the ridiculous Iron 3 numbers? What is this fascination with Iron Man over the other Marvel characters? I personally enjoyed the HULK's role in the Avengers MORE than I liked Iron Man's.

Did Shatner die? Some speculation as to if he ever really left the ribbon. Another point is Scotty in TNG Relics thought Jim Kirk was alive and well, taking the Enterprise out of mothballs to search for Scotty when he disappeared.

Kahn portrayal by Ben was admirable almost a tribute to Ricardo Montalban with the hyper intellectualism and physical stamina. However he was devoid of the the charm (charisma) that made Kahn so dangerous. He seduced a member of the Enterprise crew to come away into exile with him. heck I'd go as far as to argue he seduced Krik allowing Kahn the option of exile.

Into Darkness ripped of Star Trek Enterprise's Augment story Arc, which had genetically modified Humans taking down Klingons in single combat, it also had a good explanation for the odd looking Klingons in the TOS and a perfect use of Dr. Soong (which does not excuse how rubbish the Klingons are in Into Darkness ).

After the complete rip-off of Wrath of Kahn including mind-numbing stupidly executed death scene switch. Why!! KAHN!!!!!!!

The way this series is going I can tell you exactly what the next tow movies will be, a Dark Mirror episode (which would be a better use of the title Into Darkness), with a turnabout trilogy with Jane Kirk still seducing green women. _./// :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Honestly give me two more series of Trek Enterprise of the this movie business. Give me any new televised Star Trek for the love of god, as it appears to be the only way modern story tellers can keep to the founding principles of Trek.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby bjmdds » Mon May 27, 2013 9:52 pm

FormerBondFan wrote:
bjmdds wrote:The Khan portrayal was excellent.


You're talking Ben's part, right?
Yes.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Tue May 28, 2013 2:55 am

Aside from the Spock's girlfriend aspect which makes me uncomfortable there is the Emo Spock story. Starting with the Count Down to Into Darkness comic book Spock is dreaming about his mother dying and obsessed with death.
I also didn't care for their 'Mudd incident' .
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Omega » Tue May 28, 2013 7:43 pm

It is a fun movie I truly am surprised it is struggling.

I will admit the dead Tribble resurrected by magic blood was weak. And why did they need Kahn to save Kirk? They had 70 other supermen in storage wouldn't their blood be as good?


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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby bjmdds » Tue May 28, 2013 8:00 pm

You would think so. Abrams needs to get his script better thought out. {The Wrath of Khan was released in North America on June 4, 1982. It was a box office success, earning US$97 million worldwide and setting a world record for first-day box office gross. Critical reaction to the film was positive; reviewers highlighted Khan, the film's pacing, and the character interactions as strong elements. Negative reaction focused on weak special effects and some of the acting. The Wrath of Khan is generally considered to be the best film of the Star Trek series and is credited with the creation of substantial renewed interest in the franchise. Spock leaves the bridge and goes to the engine room to restore the warp drive. When McCoy tries to prevent Spock's exposure to high levels of radiation, he incapacitates the doctor with a Vulcan nerve pinch and then performs a mind meld, telling him to "Remember". Spock restores power to the warp drive and the Enterprise escapes the explosion. Kirk arrives in the engine room, where Spock dies of radiation poisoning. The explosion of the Genesis Device causes the gas in the nebula to reform into a new planet, capable of sustaining life. A space burial is held in the Enterprise's torpedo room and Spock's coffin is shot into orbit around the newly formed planet.} Which film succeeded? The original version did. You do NOT tamper with theatrical perfection, just as the new Planet Of The Apes was a disgrace compared to Heston's masterpiece. Abrams is NOT doing himself any favors. NEW storylines are required, NOT the remaking of classic Trek films. Case closed :!:
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Wed May 29, 2013 5:13 am

bjmdds wrote:NEW storylines are required, NOT the remaking of classic Trek films. Case closed :!:


I'm positive ID is and will be the only remake (loose if not a true remake) of the series. If you think ID is a disgrace and insult due to being a remake of a classic franchise film, then look at the corrupted GE game starring DC again. That game should never have been made, and the same goes to 007 Legends. Not the best idea ever, but better rehashing classic Trek episodes and films than remaking the classic Bond films (especially those from Pierce) with DC as Bond.

As for ST3, bring in rogue Klingons as the main villain and Shatner as the old Kirk. And PLEASE.....NO BORG!!!!!!!!! As far as the story goes, the next Trek should use X-Men: Days of Future Past as a model where characters from both universes meet. Young TOS crew (Alternate Reality) meeting post-Nemesis TNG crew. How cool would that be?
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby bjmdds » Wed May 29, 2013 8:03 pm

Anything containing DC is a waste and I won't look at it. I'd rather watch a monkey play in a cage :!:
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Thu May 30, 2013 4:18 am

bjmdds wrote:Anything containing DC is a waste and I won't look at it. I'd rather watch a monkey play in a cage :!:


Would you rather watch this over DC Bond?



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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby bjmdds » Thu May 30, 2013 6:53 pm

I don't watch ANY Cr-egg films. Anything is better than that.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Omega » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:40 am

Maybe the backlash to ripping off wrath of Kahn will keep eon from copying the old series stories


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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:07 am

Omega wrote:Maybe the backlash to ripping off wrath of Kahn will keep eon from copying the old series stories


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GE and some of the original classic were remade in video games. I do not see ID as a ripoff of TWOK but as a loose remake but better remaking classic episodes and movies of Trek than remaking classic Bonds (especially those with Pierce) with DC as Bond.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby stockslivevan » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:17 am

The difference is that the GE remake was just a video game, not a full fledged movie like INTO DARKNESS.

My thoughts on INTO DARKNESS: I thought it was better than the last one, or at least it was a step up. It at least felt more like a Star Trek story (not counting the third act, as that was just shameless rip-off). It touches on a few things I actually hoped it would do, but doesn't really do anything with them and are brushed aside so quickly. Such as Kirk being demoted. I HATED the ending of the last movie where they promoted him from a third year cadet to a captain, which disregards the very concept of the chain of command. Kirk accomplished most things out of dumb luck. So when they featured Kirk screwing up a mission concerning the prime directive and then getting demoted, I thought it was on the right track. I was hoping that this would be the film where he has to prove his worth and actually EARN the captain's chair. Instead, ten minutes after he gets demoted he's immediately a captain again, and only because his captain got killed. :roll: In a case like that, someone else would have stepped in. Whatever.

The Khan reveal was stupid, especially since this character had in common with the real Khan was super strength. That's really all there was. But it's no surprise when the writers revealed that when they were developing the script that the character was initially NOT Khan at all but rather an original character. However, Lindelof insisted on turning the character into Khan "because he's Star Trek's Joker", a statement that only reinforces how these folks have no clue what they're doing. Khan wasn't Kirk's nemesis, he was another villain but a classic one. The closest thing that Star Trek has to a nemesis is Q or Dukat, and those characters were from the spin-offs.

Then there's that third act. Not only is that pointless, it wastes the cast. Here is this new cast playing the TOS characters ready for new adventures, and the filmmakers just rehash plot points from previous films? I bet there are writers out there that would kill to write a brand new story of Kirk and crew, but it's not these writers. They're more interested in being cute with audiences than telling a unique story. "Hey guys remember Khan? Here you go! Hey, remember the ending of 2? Here you go, but switched!" It's stuff like this that makes Purvis and Wade look like master screenwriters. Sorry, but fan service will only get you so far. And that Nimoy cameo. Why? Let this new crew stand on their own and make their own new adventures. This was totally unnecessary.

Overall, as a dumb action blockbuster it was admittedly enjoyable. As a Star Trek film? Hahahaha, yeah right.

My rankings:

1. The Wrath of Khan
2. The Undiscovered Country
3. First Contact
4. The Voyage Home
5. The Search for Spock
6. Into Darkness
7. The Motion Picture
8. Generations
9. Insurrection
10. The Final Frontier
11. Star Trek
12. Nemesis


And for your amusement, a video showing examples of INTO DARKNESS ripping-off- er, I mean "homaging" past Trek shows and movies.

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:39 pm

Howdy Stocks! :cheers: :cheers:

Stocks did you read the countdown to Into Darkness?

While I did like some aspects on the whole this one bothered more more than the first. However the opening adventure I did enjoy, this and the 'Mudd adventure' in the lead in book. However so much is ripping off the TOS (and other shows) I left very disappointed.

Killing off Pike and death obsessed Spock bothered me a lot.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:56 pm

I'm looking forward to "Star Trek 3" in which the crew have to travel back in time to 2016 to obtain a whale.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby stockslivevan » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:34 am

Blowfeld wrote:Howdy Stocks! :cheers: :cheers:

Stocks did you read the countdown to Into Darkness?

While I did like some aspects on the whole this one bothered more more than the first. However the opening adventure I did enjoy, this and the 'Mudd adventure' in the lead in book. However so much is ripping off the TOS (and other shows) I left very disappointed.

Killing off Pike and death obsessed Spock bothered me a lot.


Pike's death and Kirk's reaction was actually more believable than in the third act with Kirk and Spock. Where you could see Pike well written as a father figure for Kirk and how his death would affect him, there really isn't much of a friendship between Kirk and Spock. There's still a hint of hostility between them yet the movie keeps trying to tell us they're friends. That's why Spock's reaction just doesn't work for me because not only would Spock never act that out of character but their friendship doesn't even ring true enough to believe it would affect him that way. When his mother and home planet were destroyed he actually kept it together, yet for Kirk he loses it?! This just shows how poor storytellers these writers are.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby bjmdds » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:46 pm

Correct. Hire FBF to write the next script :!:
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:38 pm

In the Tie-in book Spock has nightmares about his mother dying.

What bothers me is Pike had a destiny and that he his killed rather flippantly IMO.

The second half the movie falls apart for me I can almost imagine him sitting at his desk and the call for Star Wars sequel come in so he wraps Into Darkness up so he can 'Use The Force'. I know it didn't happen this way however It feels like they took short cuts to complete the film.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby James » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:11 pm

Blowfeld wrote:In the Tie-in book Spock has nightmares about his mother dying.

What bothers me is Pike had a destiny and that he his killed rather flippantly IMO.

The second half the movie falls apart for me I can almost imagine him sitting at his desk and the call for Star Wars sequel come in so he wraps Into Darkness up so he can 'Use The Force'. I know it didn't happen this way however It feels like they took short cuts to complete the film.


I disliked the riffs on Wrath of Khan in the last act too. Some really lazy writing in this film. Whatever novelty this JJ alternative universe reboot had in 2009 seemed to missing this time around and some of the chases felt more like Star Wars than Star Trek. A waste of Cumberbatch really as he was the best thing in the film but had an underwritten part and not much to do. Nice to see Peter Weller though. He should definitely be in more films. All in all, I would rather have a new Star Trek television series than another one of these films.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby carl stromberg » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:52 pm

Just as the new Bond is for people who hate the old Bond series the new Trek is for people who are not big fans of Star Trek.
Bring back Bond!
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