Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:09 am

carl stromberg wrote:Just as the new Bond is for people who hate the old Bond series the new Trek is for people who are not big fans of Star Trek.


For Trek, fickle fans don't blame problems on actors like the fans did for Bond.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby acid » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:17 pm

I'm not really a fan of the reboot (Abrams keeps trying to make it Star Wars) and Pine is no Shatner.

I say Kiefer Sutherland for Captain Kirk! :mrgreen: I thought of it whilst watching 24 and then I found this http://imgur.com/r/startrek/bWUNa !

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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby acid » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:05 pm

Hey, I'm not hearing a lot of support for Sutherland :(
Even if he couldn't be Kirk, I think it would be pretty easy for him to be a better Bond than Craig, though the gravelly Canadian accent wouldn't be ideal!
FormerBondFan wrote: fickle fans don't blame problems on actors

Sorry FBF, I guess I just did bring the actors into it! I agree that the script and direction are as important though. Pine does well with what he's given.
I have a confession to make - I haven't even watched Into Darkness yet :oops: - because after seeing the previous one (on TV) I decided to wait for this on TV also.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby carl stromberg » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:19 pm

This new Trek is a bit too radical for me and I did not like the Wrath of Khan references. But there have been many different versions of Star Trek so there will something new soon. And the latest Trek series is not unwatchable like the Craig Bonds.

Kiether Sutherland could play an older Kirk!
Bring back Bond!
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:16 pm

carl stromberg wrote:Kiether Sutherland could play an older Kirk!


Only Shatner can play an older Kirk, no one else. If you want Kiefer as Kirk, then you have to create a clean reboot, disconnecting everything (including Abrams' films).
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Kristatos » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:30 am

FormerBondFan wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:Kiether Sutherland could play an older Kirk!


Only Shatner can play an older Kirk, no one else. If you want Kiefer as Kirk, then you have to create a clean reboot, disconnecting everything (including Abrams' films).

According to IMDb (so this may or may not be true), the first draft of the script for the first Abrams film did have an older Kirk along with Old Spock, but they wrote him out because it would contradict the death of Kirk in Generations.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby bjmdds » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm

Kirk's death was a joke. There is NO way Picard would have buried Kirk under rocks on a deserted planet. He would have brought his body home for a military funeral so that scene annoyed me to no end and was pathetic.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:29 pm

Kristatos wrote:
FormerBondFan wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:Kiether Sutherland could play an older Kirk!


Only Shatner can play an older Kirk, no one else. If you want Kiefer as Kirk, then you have to create a clean reboot, disconnecting everything (including Abrams' films).

According to IMDb (so this may or may not be true), the first draft of the script for the first Abrams film did have an older Kirk along with Old Spock, but they wrote him out because it would contradict the death of Kirk in Generations.

Well that was never very clear, TNG already contradicted his dying there.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby carl stromberg » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:33 pm

Didn't Shatner write a novel where Kirk was brought back to life?

Surely anyone could play an older Kirk in the alternate universe new series?
Bring back Bond!
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:46 am

carl stromberg wrote:Didn't Shatner write a novel where Kirk was brought back to life?


Yes, he did.

Surely anyone could play an older Kirk in the alternate universe new series?


Only the Shat can play an older Kirk. No one else!!!!!!!!!!! If someone other than Bill, save that for a complete reboot (which disconnects everything, including Abrams' films).
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby stockslivevan » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:50 pm

carl stromberg wrote:Just as the new Bond is for people who hate the old Bond series the new Trek is for people who are not big fans of Star Trek.

I disagree on the former, of course. Say what you want of the Craig films, but they're at least made by people who express love for the older films, especially Mendes (he cites LIVE AND LET DIE as one of his childhood favorites). Abrams on the other hand would often say "I never liked STAR TREK", throwing the older iterations under the bus for being "too intellectual" (I'm not kidding, look that up). It's probably best that he moves onto STAR WARS, because I think that's where his sensibilities truly lie.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Kristatos » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:49 am

Excuse me? The Craig films rarely miss an opportunity to sneer at the older Bond films. At least Abrams had the sense to employ a couple of Trekkies as co-writers, in order to strike a balance between old and new.

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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:16 pm

stockslivevan wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:Just as the new Bond is for people who hate the old Bond series the new Trek is for people who are not big fans of Star Trek.

I disagree on the former, of course. Say what you want of the Craig films, but they're at least made by people who express love for the older films, especially Mendes (he cites LIVE AND LET DIE as one of his childhood favorites). Abrams on the other hand would often say "I never liked STAR TREK", throwing the older iterations under the bus for being "too intellectual" (I'm not kidding, look that up). It's probably best that he moves onto STAR WARS, because I think that's where his sensibilities truly lie.

Skyfall might be the exception to the nu-Bond template, in general Daniel's 007 is opposed to everything the previous twenty movies accomplished.

However I completely agree on nu-Trek. JJ was making Trek more Star Wars than Star Trek, which is something die hard fans have been resisting since the seventies.

Both series were rebooted because producers ran out of creative ideas, more likely they were too lazy to bother. And both were turned over to elements who never enjoyed the original series for what it was.

In some ways JJ's Trek is more successful rebooting the core elements. Where 007 got stuck with more were not doing that any more attitude rather than a plan to renew the essence of the series.

Still the Trek reboot bothers me more, Daniel's era ends with him and they'll scramble to reinvent Bond once again once he is gone. Trek has been reduced to a mockery which looks to remain unchanging for a very long time. If/ when it does end it's doubtful real Trek as envisioned in the original series (all of them) will ever be able to return.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:17 pm

Blowfeld wrote:Still the Trek reboot bothers me more, Daniel's era ends with him and they'll scramble to reinvent Bond once again once he is gone.


It's possible Bond will be reinvented to look less Bond than DC is.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:21 pm

FormerBondFan wrote:
Blowfeld wrote:Still the Trek reboot bothers me more, Daniel's era ends with him and they'll scramble to reinvent Bond once again once he is gone.


It's possible Bond will be reinvented to look less Bond than DC is.
Is that even possible?
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:27 pm

Blowfeld wrote:
FormerBondFan wrote:
Blowfeld wrote:Still the Trek reboot bothers me more, Daniel's era ends with him and they'll scramble to reinvent Bond once again once he is gone.


It's possible Bond will be reinvented to look less Bond than DC is.
Is that even possible?


Anybody or anything can be Bond now, and you already know that.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby Blowfeld » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:28 pm

FormerBondFan wrote:
Blowfeld wrote:
FormerBondFan wrote:
Blowfeld wrote:Still the Trek reboot bothers me more, Daniel's era ends with him and they'll scramble to reinvent Bond once again once he is gone.


It's possible Bond will be reinvented to look less Bond than DC is.
Is that even possible?


Anybody or anything can be now, and you already know that.
You have a point :(
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby FormerBondFan » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:32 pm

Blowfeld wrote:
FormerBondFan wrote:
Blowfeld wrote:
FormerBondFan wrote:
Blowfeld wrote:Still the Trek reboot bothers me more, Daniel's era ends with him and they'll scramble to reinvent Bond once again once he is gone.


It's possible Bond will be reinvented to look less Bond than DC is.
Is that even possible?


Anybody or anything can be now, and you already know that.
You have a point :(


Kingsman: The Secret Service and Mission: Impossible is the classic Bond we have today and tomorrow while EON and the brainwashed general public can have their fun with their unorthodox actors as Bond once DC retires.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Discussion (spoilers allowed)

Postby stockslivevan » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:33 am

Kristatos wrote:Excuse me? The Craig films rarely miss an opportunity to sneer at the older Bond films.


Bond films giving a ribbing to past Bond films has been a thing since the 60s. The series has always had the capacity look at itself in the mirror and laugh, even the Craig films at themselves.

At least Abrams had the sense to employ a couple of Trekkies as co-writers, in order to strike a balance between old and new.


They were hired because they were his buddies, not because he went around looking for talented writers who were versed in Trek. Most Bad Robot productions have their own house writers to work with. STAR WARS is the exception since that's ultimately Disney/Lucasfilm's joint.
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