The Dark Knight Rises Discussion (spoilers allowed)

[Kristatos]

I enjoy Tim Burton's Bat, but his is too gothic for my taste.

I mean that Tim Burton did not bother with the origin story, Batman was already established at the start of the first film.

[FormerBondFan]

I enjoy Tim Burton's Bat, but his is too gothic for my taste.

I mean that Tim Burton did not bother with the origin story, Batman was already established at the start of the first film.

If another origin story, I say go for a TV format.

[Kristatos]

There's already a new animated series on the way - CGI rather than traditional animation this time.

[FormerBondFan]

There's already a new animated series on the way - CGI rather than traditional animation this time.

I meant live action....something similar to Smallville.

[commander0077again]

Spoilers :
As always, serious Batfans will settle only for perfection. Following will be a review (to a, etc.) from a double-O standpoint.
1. Character of Batman/Bruce Wayne. Essentialy the same as the original, a man with a very dark past, but to the outside world a veneer of sophistication, glibness. He's smart, but not as scientifically talented as the comix, since the original didn't required a Lucius Fox to create his weaponry (btw, Batman is based on Zorro the Fox).
2. B/BW has the basic physical look of the original, a dark-haired man of more than average looks.
3. The expansion of Alfred's character to a surrogate father is an improvement to the original.

Contrasting TDKR with the DC 'Bonds' we know that the 'new guy' doesn't follow the original character either in past or present. He's basically a dumb bunny, and does not even have the dark hair of Bond, and doesn't resemble either the Fleming Bond or the previous Bonds as a man who has 'rather film-star good looks' as one or two Bond girls described him.
The peripheral Bond characters are not improvements. M is a hag, though with a flinty good heart somewhere. She doesn't even smoke a pipe, or wear bow ties, or have a desk covered with green baize.

TDKR nearly hits the bullseye. Like the real Bonds, it's fun, and you have to overlook the plot holes. Although there are serious points, they are not dealt with solemnly. It begins with a very Bondian aerial sequence with baddies beating up on baddies. Then we see Bruce Wayne eight years after the last adventure, hobbling with a cane. He still has a sense of humor, and the film doesn't feel as heavy as The Dark Knight. Catwomen makes a Bondian entrance, we see her first only from the rear. She does all sorts of Bond stuff, even flinging away her white collars, I almost expected her to reveal a tux. Selena's scenes with Wayne are Bondian fun. Anne Hathaway has an easy going beauty. Sometimes she looks just average, and sometimes she has that something extra. And, of course, when she wears the catsuit, there are no complaints.

The main villain Bane is enjoyable. At first hearing, I thought he was doing a Connery imitation, post post Bond, very thick accent. In fact, one of the Batfan zones asked, Is that Sean Connery dubbing Bane's voice?

The music is the best of the trilogy. I like the score to be dramatic and bigger than life, like King John Barry. When Batman first appears, his theme sends a warm glow to hearts of fans everywhere. I missed this very much in Brosnan's incarnation.

It has a Bond twist at the end, although played by an actress who was not up to her best. But back to bests, the reason Tombraider failed is much because of Angelina Jolie's film personna. She appears to take herself too seriously. Not a Daniel Craig, but close. Hathaway is likeable, and it's possible she could do a solo outing as the Catwoman.

The ending is bittersweet; it could be a dream, although there are plenty of hints that it's real. Batman could 'easily' have survived even a nuclear blast, he is sort of a Bond, after all. It plays better as a dream, to me (hey, that sounds like a Fleming chapter title).

All in all, a very satisfying entertainment, where we have a real Batman, a complex hero who becomes a true hero. And he energizes the other characters to become heroes, even the entire city. That's a pretty good happy ending. We like Bruce Wayne, and thank you filmmakers for not tweaking him so much that he's unrecognizable, we won't mention names. I would have preferred the final fight for Batman to actually beat Bane without resorting to the facebreather ploy (aha! just ignore ripping that off in the first fight, Bruce!) .... after all, after the prison, he is back to his old self.

[Blowfeld]

FBF is going to egg my flat...anyway here it goes.

Dark knight Rises is in my book not as good as Begins and Dark Knight. I had a hunch who Miranda would be from Batman of the Future animated series.

I have no issues with Bruce doing the right thing and finally running off with sweet, sweet, Selina. That's been in the cards since Julie Newmar.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt was on screen too often for what I suppose was no real purpose, if Nolan is not coming back with Batman 4 introducing this Blake as the new Batman.

Bane did to my ears sound similar Connery from Dragonheart.

What it comes down to for me if the first two movie deliver the goods, plenty of mythos for the fans. Third instalment starts flat although opener was something Cubby would have done for TND. It begins with Batman is gone fighting sever depression(humm sound familiar Skyfll), with seemingly nothing happening since the last movie. I think it would have worked better for me if they had left the door open for missing adventures if you will.

Also don't see why the Harvey Dent lie was a big deal or deal breaker. Why did everyone believe this unmasking based on a stolen letter supposedly from Gordon? The Dent law worked the results speak for themselves not like it was GETMO.

They need to make Batman of the Future with Clint Eastwood as old Bruce Wayne next

I humbly await FBF's drive by egging

[FormerBondFan]

Joseph Gordon-Levitt was on screen too often for what I suppose was no real purpose, if Nolan is not coming back with Batman 4 introducing this Blake as the new Batman.

Better for Blake to be the new Batman than restarting the Bat again. If the Justice League is to be made with connections with Chris' Bat, then Blake would join the League, considering Bruce Wayne is retired. Personally, I would prefer Bruce Wayne (even better with Christian Bale) behind the mask in JL. With Bale's Bat retired and Blake to rise up as the Bat (not to mentioned Chris Nolan finished with the Bat), resetting the Bat might be the way. Chris' Bat won't be in JL, and neither will Zack Synder's Supie (according to Zack himself). If Bale won't be in JL, then I wouldn't want Henry to be in it as well.

Third instalment starts flat although opener was something Cubby would have done for TND.

Flat? I couldn't even describe how great it is.

It begins with Batman is gone fighting sever depression(humm sound familiar Skyfll), with seemingly nothing happening since the last movie.

Bruce Wayne is having a midlife crisis.

I think it would have worked better for me if they had left the door open for missing adventures if you will.

Batman is on the run.

They need to make Batman of the Future with Clint Eastwood as old Bruce Wayne next

Clint is too old. What about Pierce as an older Wayne? If not, bring back Michael Keaton.

I humbly await FBF's drive by egging

Since you're sounding like a minion, I'm going to torture you with this:

[video][/video]

[commander0077again]

Just an aside on the 'avuncular Lucius Fox' .... was intrigued by the name. As above, I note that Batman was influenced by the character Zorro (the Fox). which was created, I think, in the early 20th century by a pulp writer. Zorro had a black horse, Batman had a black car; their alter egos were wealthy, indolent guys, living in mansions. The name Lucius turns up in the Bible, New Testament, as 1/ a Christian from Cyrene, a church in Antioch 2/ the apostle Paul's relative / kinsman.
Cyrene was made famous in Matthew where Roman soldiers 'drafted' someone from the crowd named Simon of Cyrene to help Jesus carry the cross. Later, we see references to a Simon of Cyrene who is father Alexander and Rufus, who were staunch early Christians. Rufus is also mentioned as Paul's friend. It's highly likely that this is the same Simon who carried the cross, and became a follower of Christ. Cyrene was a Libyan city in North Africa. Maybe the back story of Lucius Fox is that his ancester was one of the Luciuses of the Bible, or / and his ancester was Zorro!

Also, I note that the Batman theme's first two notes are identical to OHMSS theme. Some may wonder why the importance of two notes? As musicians of ill repute will say, two notes can make the difference between a good song and a bad one. I believe composers do this a lot. For example, Dances with Wolves' theme has the first notes of the doleful 'Taps' .... as that film was said to be an elegy to the America that was, or could have been, and now long gone, The King John Barry (I don't think calling him Sir John is adequate!) created another winner on just a few notes.

[Napoleon Solo]

Also, I note that the Batman theme's first two notes are identical to OHMSS theme. Some may wonder why the importance of two notes? As musicians of ill repute will say, two notes can make the difference between a good song and a bad one. I believe composers do this a lot. For example, Dances with Wolves' theme has the first notes of the doleful 'Taps' .... as that film was said to be an elegy to the America that was, or could have been, and now long gone, The King John Barry (I don't think calling him Sir John is adequate!) created another winner on just a few notes.

Three other examples:

--The Man From UNCLE theme by Jerry Goldsmith has four notes in common with a composition of background music Morton Stevens for the television series Thriller done two years earlier.

--Stevens' theme for Police Woman supposedly is just Goldsmith's theme for Our Man Flint backwards.

--Stevens' Hawaii Five-O theme has two or three notes in common with underscore he did for the UNCLE episode The Double Affair (seen outside the U.S. as the movie The Spy With My Face).

[bjamesobrad]

Now... I'm not saying I didn't like it but... It was the weakest of Nolans Bat movies. The whole city under seige was alittle much. Sorry FBF but if they don't keep Bruce Wayne as Batman, especially in the JL movie, I will be extremely pissed.

[FormerBondFan]

The whole city under seige was alittle much.

The city under siege was taken from No Man's Land.

Sorry FBF but if they don't keep Bruce Wayne as Batman, especially in the JL movie, I will be extremely pissed.

I too would want see Bruce Wayne as Batman in JL. This reboot thing has gone too far. I would be interested of seeing JGL as the Bat, but having him in JL seems rather weird. I would prefer to see Bale in JL, but his Bat will not be in it. If Bale is not going to be in JL, then I don't want Cavill to be in it as well.

[bjamesobrad]

I have read no man's land and really enjoyed it but I found it didn't fit well in Nolans world.
I did enjoy the movie very much though and I would agree Bale was at the top of his game on this.
I want to see a whole new cast for JL. And in the next reinvisioned Batman ( it will happen weather its now or down the road) is a Batwan world where villians like Killer Croc and Mr. Freeze could be possible. A movie along the lines of the Arkham games would be perfect. In my dream world Bruce Timm and Paul Dini would be in charge.

[bjamesobrad]

One other thing I hate how they Name Levitts Robin in the end. Just @#$%ing name him Dick Grayson

[FormerBondFan]

One other thing I hate how they Name Levitts Robin in the end. Just @#$%ing name him Dick Grayson

Dick Grayson is still a little kid. Back in 2008, Chris Nolan said that Grayson is in a crib somewhere. Since TDKR takes place 8 years after TDK, he would be 8 years old.

[FormerBondFan]

And in the next reinvisioned Batman ( it will happen weather its now or down the road) is a Batwan world where villians like Killer Croc and Mr. Freeze could be possible. A movie along the lines of the Arkham games would be perfect. In my dream world Bruce Timm and Paul Dini would be in charge.

I too would want to Bruce Timm and Paul Dini in charge.

Speaking of JL, it's been said by Zack Snyder that Henry Cavill's Superman won't be in it. I hope it means Henry himself will not star in it.

[bjamesobrad]

I never heard that about dick grayson, thats interesting.
I think for the next incarnation of Batman they should take from the long halloween and show the origins of Robin and like in the long halloween they can use robins origins to explain batmans by drawing out the similarities.

[commander0077again]

I agree that a city under siege is an old plot, but Gotham had to play a big part. Plus, on second thought, Selena was absolutely playing Bond.

[FormerBondFan]

I agree that a city under siege is an old plot, but Gotham had to play a big part. Plus, on second thought, Selena was absolutely playing Bond.

I thought Bale was the one playing Bond.

[commander0077again]

My apologies, I was referencing when Selena is first introduced. But, yesh, Bale is also playing Bond ... the Bond of YOLT novel, where he's wondering about ants' corpses, and M gives him one last chance. Despite the bleak outlook, Bond's sense of humor is seen intact; YOLT Fleming at his funny bests, as we see Bond being treated to dinner with Tiger and a live lobster, "Good God, Tiger, it's alive!" And Tiger tsks tsks hm, "Really, Bondo-san. You must get rid of your western sensibilities." (paraphrase).

But here's a big story, just off my presses a few moments ago: Is the Colorodo shootiing linked to the LIBOR bank fraud? Check out Jack Blood's site, Deadline.live info. 20120/07/26. Holmes father is a lead scientist who discovered how the banksters were being evil genuises to rig the game. Much similar to TDKR.

[Kristatos]

But here's a big story, just off my presses a few moments ago: Is the Colorodo shootiing linked to the LIBOR bank fraud? Check out Jack Blood's site, Deadline.live info. 20120/07/26. Holmes father is a lead scientist who discovered how the banksters were being evil genuises to rig the game. Much similar to TDKR.

Hmmm...I think I'l wait to hear it from a source that isn't wearing the proverbial (or possibly literal in this case) tinfoil helmet.