NTTD spoiler thread

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by dirtybenny »

Kristatos wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:02 pm
dirtybenny wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:58 pm Yes, it's my fault for lumping him in with the likes of Mendes, if this film bombs hopefully Babs will realize the error of her ways and he'll get another shot.
It's not going to bomb, though, unfortunately. Here in the UK, it's already on a par with Avengers: Endgame in terms of advance ticket sales. Unless it falls of a cliff in its second weekend, EON's takeaway will be that this is what the audience wants.
Perhaps, but those tickets were sold before the bombshell of Bond's death dropped, so there may still be hope. There's also the rest of the world's markets to contend with so we'll see.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by carl stromberg »

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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by The Sweeney »

Saw it last night. I have very mixed feelings about it.

Action - superb. Probably the best we've seen in the series.
Plot - fairly decent, keeps in line with Bond traditions
Craig - nails it, knocks it out of the park with his performance.

BUT (and a big but)....

The ending. I've never felt this disappointed watching a movie. It kills everything that was great leading up to it. So unnecessary. Cubby will be turning in his grave at what they've done to his franchise.

Why couldn't they have just had the balls to continue with the YOLT storyline right to the end. An amnesia ridden Bond, not knowing anymore who he is, lost and sailing off to Russia. That would still have given them the shock tragedy ending they were looking for, instead of the stupid dumbass thing they've done instead. You don't kill off a cash cow like this. There is nowhere to go now.

The franchise needs a serious overhaul after this, a complete reboot, including Babs and the backroom team, because they have clearly run out of steam.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

Hope The Sweeney is ok in these mad times!

With the Craig movies they always have to come up with something new, hence him throwing a seven at the end. A 6th Craig movie would probably have him as an android in some AI plot.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by acid »

Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:31 pm A 6th Craig movie would probably have him as an android in some AI plot.
Funny you should say that, Sir Dom, as it says on Wikipedia that Bond gets injected with nanobots programmed with the genetic code of Madeleine and Mathilde. How many times have we seen a superhero's DNA or blood being injected into a dying or dead character and then magically resurrecting them? Of course such a thing would be even more inappropriate in a Bond movie. In that case was it just supposed to add insult to injury with a further emasculation of the man?

Anyway, it's clearer than ever that Barbara is quite happy to annoy the fans to generate a talking point. I guess this was an upping of the dramatic stakes after the whole Brofeld thing arguably fell flat.

Hey it could also always turn out to be like Bond's "death" at the start of the YOLT movie. It's far more likely though it'll just be a harder reboot next time that just ignores those events - which would show they really, really, don't care about the continuity but as dirtybenny has said, from our perspective it might be for the best.

In an ideal world, would it even really be a reboot if they just forgot the Craig era ever happened and picked up where DAD, err I mean let's say where GoldenEye, left off?
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry »

acid wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:56 pm
Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:31 pm A 6th Craig movie would probably have him as an android in some AI plot.
Funny you should say that, Sir Dom, as it says on Wikipedia that Bond gets injected with nanobots programmed with the genetic code of Madeleine and Mathilde. How many times have we seen a superhero's DNA or blood being injected into a dying or dead character and then magically resurrecting them? Of course such a thing would be even more inappropriate in a Bond movie. In that case was it just supposed to add insult to injury with a further emasculation of the man?

Anyway, it's clearer than ever that Barbara is quite happy to annoy the fans to generate a talking point. I guess this was an upping of the dramatic stakes after the whole Brofeld thing arguably fell flat.

Hey it could also always turn out to be like Bond's "death" at the start of the YOLT movie. It's far more likely though it'll just be a harder reboot next time that just ignores those events - which would show they really, really, don't care about the continuity but as dirtybenny has said, from our perspective it might be for the best.

In an ideal world, would it even really be a reboot if they just forgot the Craig era ever happened and picked up where DAD, err I mean let's say where GoldenEye, left off?
I favour the pick up where Brosnan left off - also known as the Bobby in the shower method.

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If Craig had made a quick trilogy and then got turned into lemon juice at the end, maybe a fun resurrection could have been had with the next actor. But Barbara invented a new spy character and had him go from rookie to retired in 5 movies over 16 years.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by acid »

Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:58 am If Craig had made a quick trilogy and then got turned into lemon juice at the end, maybe a fun resurrection could have been had with the next actor. But Barbara invented a new spy character and had him go from rookie to retired in 5 movies over 16 years.
That's an excellent point. They have to ditch his timeline now unless they pretend he retired very young (and do the resurrection thing, or maybe he hid inside Safin's secret, indestructable, antimatter-powered escape bunker), present any future movies as prequels, or, worst of all, adopt the whole codename thing or his son, also called James, follows in his father's footsteps. Hey, I'd better stop giving them ideas! :roll:
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Jason »

Just a random thought. How dare Babz and Danny kill off Ian Fleming's creation!! Just had to get off my chest.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by carl stromberg »

Jason wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:28 pm Just a random thought. How dare Babz and Danny kill off Ian Fleming's creation!! Just had to get off my chest.
That abomination was not James Bond, it was a creation of Craig and Barbara Broccoli. Unfortunately Barbara inherited the James Bond film series and just happened to be best friends with some obscure British actor called Daniel Craig. Fleming's Bond is alive and well. :wink:
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by ns_writings »

Hello everyone,

I'm a very good friend of John P Drake and... well, let's just say No Time To Die convinced me to join. Read my review: https://goldeneyedossier.wixsite.com/bo ... nal-insult

I've been a Bond fan since I watched GoldenEye on TV. That glorious film, the one many centennial youtubers consider "it hasn't aged well" and "stinks of 90s nostalgia", was my door to the huge universe of James Bond: the Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Dalton films; the comics, the soundtracks, the Fleming novels (and his continuity). And well, the fact that they were adapting Casino Royale and it was directed by Martin Campbell was enough to convince me to give the blonde man a chance. And I can't say I disliked that film. I put a forced smile through the films that followed, with only SPECTRE getting to satisfy me because it tried to be a formulaic Bond film and well, another personal reasons. But then No Time To Die came. And they f*cking crossed the line, turning Bond in "the stupid policeman whose luck runs out", as Dr No said 59 years ago.

And well, here we have it. They played us like the makers of Itchy & Scratchy played Homer by killing Poochie.

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Loved Dirty Benny's column, by the way.
Hope to have a nice stay and real Bond fans are my friends.
And Brosnan Bond fans are my brothers!

Let's celebrate the LIFE of James Bond 007.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by old1f5k »

Hi. Im Glad i didnt went to watch this direction of craig movies end only way that consistant with idiocy they wanted to go. skyfall-house of bond... ok little like batman but i can accept, spectre-blofeld is james bond step brother, torture scene... no! thats to much for me. spectre was last james bond movie i seen in cinema. no time to die is natural evolution of stupid ideas... bond has a daughter and dies. q is gay for some reason.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by Kristatos »

old1f5k wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:19 pm q is gay for some reason.
That part is particularly ironic. Ben Whishaw didn't come out as gay until he was basically forced to by the press, because he thinks that the less people know about an actor's personal life, the less inclined they will be to confuse the actor with the character. EON basically proved his point for him by making his character gay as well. Star Trek did the same thing with George Takei and Sulu, against Takei's wishes, and even though a different actor plays Sulu in the rebooted series.

By contrast, Desmond Llewellyn played Q for decades, and we have no idea whether his Q was gay, straight, married, single, whatever. His job was just to hand Bond gadgets whilst tetchily urging him to pay attenion.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by dirtybenny »

ns_writings wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:56 am Loved Dirty Benny's column, by the way.
Hope to have a nice stay and real Bond fans are my friends.
And Brosnan Bond fans are my brothers!

Let's celebrate the LIFE of James Bond 007.
My Bond isn't dead!
Hello and welcome ns_writings! Thank you for the compliment, I quite enjoyed your article as well! I can sympathize, my awakening felt just as I'm sure yours does now, it's hard to believe they can get Bond so wrong! I hope to see more of you in the future!
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by Irony-Man2 »

Well, I just saw it last night with my son. General thoughts ( with some mild spoilers):

1. It was fine. Just fine. Not top tier Bond, but good enough;
2. Craig actually seems for the first time to be enjoying playing Bond - he even smiles (18 minutes in as my son commented)
3. It could have easily have been edited to a shorter run time. I think it was Cubby Broccoli who always insisted (with the exception of OHMSS) that a Bond film should be no more than 2 hours. This film has lots of slow paced dialogue. The middle third of the film could have been accomplished in half the time
4. The action - again part of the editing issue - with the exception of the opening car chase, it was pretty generic. There was an atmospheric set piece in a forest and a one-shot fight up a stairway that were well done, but nothing groundbreaking
5. The gadgets - the watch was fun although its use gave rise to a cringeworthy "joke" by Bond, and there was this dropship airplane/submarine thingy that was used for about 2 minutes. What a waste!
6. Music - Was good enough. Zimmer referenced previous Bond films (especially OHMSS) and there were hints of his Dark Knight score in some of the action beats
7. The Regulars - For once, like Craig, they all seemed to be enjoying themselves (with the exception of Ralph Fiennes M, whose motivations and character seemed to switch to whatever the story demanded), but Moneypenny, Q and Leiter were reliable and professional - I actually really enjoyed Ben Whishaw's Q, and could seem him developing into a worthy foil for Bond (except for ... you know)
8. The ending: It ends the 5 film Craigology in a generic way (without really having earned the supposedly emotional climax). At the very least it will allow for a restart of the series although its probably too much to hope that they might try something daring (like a film arc set in the 60's), but we can hope

My biggest criticism with all of the Craig films is that they promised more than they delivered and they never understood a few things that I feel were central to the Bond mythology

1. Blofeld was never Bond's nemesis, Bond was Blofeld's nemesis - that changes the whole dynamic of their relationship ( and was better portrayed in the original films and books) Bond is Blofeld's nemesis, Blofeld retaliates on Bond, Bond seeks vengeance on Blofeld - to the point of obsession
2. Bond also had the respect and friendship of the people he worked with, and was not the subject of the cheap jokes and animosity as portrayed in the Craig films (which I think goes to the pathology of the producers not really liking the character). And in this film the end of Felix Leiter was another supposed emotional highlight that felt unearned - we never really saw the friendship between Bond and Leiter in the other films
3. Finally, Bond was supposed to enjoy life - or the smaller things in it - good food, a well made drink, good friends and satisfying though usually short-lived relationships with women. Craig's Bond was perpetually cranky and angry and didn't really seem to enjoy these things - although we saw a little of that in this filM.

That's it for me this time. I honestly can't be bothered to get too worked up over decisions made by franchises that meant so much to me in the past. I can enjoy them for what they were and even what they are.

Now I'm going to make myself a Vesper martini and settle down for Thanksgiving Dinner with a limited number of family and friends.

PS, its nice to be back on the forum. I am the sequel to the original Irony-man as I couldn't log back in and had to re-register as I originally registered 3 email addresses ago!
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by ns_writings »

dirtybenny wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:29 am
ns_writings wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:56 am Loved Dirty Benny's column, by the way.
Hope to have a nice stay and real Bond fans are my friends.
And Brosnan Bond fans are my brothers!

Let's celebrate the LIFE of James Bond 007.
My Bond isn't dead!
Hello and welcome ns_writings! Thank you for the compliment, I quite enjoyed your article as well! I can sympathize, my awakening felt just as I'm sure yours does now, it's hard to believe they can get Bond so wrong! I hope to see more of you in the future!
Thank you Dirty Benny. I plan to write more on NTTD's failures, and I'm glad I'm not the one to notice how they retconned Madeleine.
The girl I saw in SPECTRE was:

-The daughter of a woman and a Quantum/SPECTRE assassin.
-The three visited Tangier and stayed at L'Americain.
-Mr White's life was so dangerous that he put his family at risk constantly.
-One day, a hitman came to kill Mr White, Madeleine shot him with a gun his father had hidden.
-That event led to the divorce of Mr White and his wife. After that, Madeleine stopped talking with his father.
-She went to the Sorbonne, Medics Sans Frontieres and then got a job at the Hoffler Klinik. Away from his father's violent life.
-Then, Bond came and was brought back to that world.

They retconned Madeleine as a girl who experienced the death of her mother, too and had lots of traumas!
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by dirtybenny »

ns_writings wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:47 pm
Thank you Dirty Benny. I plan to write more on NTTD's failures, and I'm glad I'm not the one to notice how they retconned Madeleine.
The girl I saw in SPECTRE was:

-The daughter of a woman and a Quantum/SPECTRE assassin.
-The three visited Tangier and stayed at L'Americain.
-Mr White's life was so dangerous that he put his family at risk constantly.
-One day, a hitman came to kill Mr White, Madeleine shot him with a gun his father had hidden.
-That event led to the divorce of Mr White and his wife. After that, Madeleine stopped talking with his father.
-She went to the Sorbonne, Medics Sans Frontieres and then got a job at the Hoffler Klinik. Away from his father's violent life.
-Then, Bond came and was brought back to that world.

They retconned Madeleine as a girl who experienced the death of her mother, too and had lots of traumas!
Absolutely right NSW (I hope you don't mind the abbreviation, please call me DB everyone else does),one film later and they can't keep their own character correct! I guess they assume nobody's paying attention and I suppose they're right by the looks of things! Keep up the good work I can't wait to hear more from you!
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by acid »

ns_writings wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:56 am Hello everyone,

I'm a very good friend of John P Drake and... well, let's just say No Time To Die convinced me to join. Read my review: https://goldeneyedossier.wixsite.com/bo ... nal-insult
Welcome NSW and thanks for your interesting NTTD review. :)

Isn't that ridiculous that it shares plot points with the 1967 Casino Royale spoof?

I personally think the idea for Bond's death was simply a case of taking the most dramatic and emotional ending of one of the most highly acclaimed Bond films, OHMSS, even bringing the key line along, and then just reversing the gender roles, so Bond dies instead of his wife this time. Probably because they think Bond's a sexist misogynist and therefore he should be the one it happens to, so 007 can remain a woman. Such a clever twist, eh? :picard:

OK, I get that the death itself was in very different circumstances to Tracy's in OHMSS, but that doesn't excuse or even really improve what they did.

In actual fact this lazy idea of taking a major character's death and some of the related dialog and just flipping it around to finish off the other character was already done in Star Trek: Into Darkness. I don't like the Trek reboot movies by the way and I don't really like when any film reuses material without a really good reason.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by bjmdds »

When CR was done, Broccoli said, paraphrasing, that "doing book 1 as film 20 made no sense.....BUT, it sure is a lot of fun". This shows you her arrogance to the audience by making it a reboot storyline, instead of a continuation one from DAD. She developed a very unhealthy and sick obsession with Cr-egg, got him to dress in drag as a public service announcement, and still, refuses to let him go by promoting him next March in Macbeth on Broadway. MGW once said Barbara loves to see Cr-egg shirtless. I doubt her heart will be into continuing the franchise without her imaginary lover in the role. She deemed a cursing loser as the ambassador to her daddy's legacy and it finally backfired in her face!
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by bjmdds »

ns_writings wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:56 am Hello everyone,

I'm a very good friend of John P Drake and... well, let's just say No Time To Die convinced me to join. Read my review: https://goldeneyedossier.wixsite.com/bo ... nal-insult

I've been a Bond fan since I watched GoldenEye on TV. That glorious film, the one many centennial youtubers consider "it hasn't aged well" and "stinks of 90s nostalgia", was my door to the huge universe of James Bond: the Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Dalton films; the comics, the soundtracks, the Fleming novels (and his continuity). And well, the fact that they were adapting Casino Royale and it was directed by Martin Campbell was enough to convince me to give the blonde man a chance. And I can't say I disliked that film. I put a forced smile through the films that followed, with only SPECTRE getting to satisfy me because it tried to be a formulaic Bond film and well, another personal reasons. But then No Time To Die came. And they f*cking crossed the line, turning Bond in "the stupid policeman whose luck runs out", as Dr No said 59 years ago.

And well, here we have it. They played us like the makers of Itchy & Scratchy played Homer by killing Poochie.

Image

Loved Dirty Benny's column, by the way.
Hope to have a nice stay and real Bond fans are my friends.
And Brosnan Bond fans are my brothers!

Let's celebrate the LIFE of James Bond 007.
My Bond isn't dead!
Hello Nicolas. How is the Drakester doing? Glad you decided to join in the arena here.
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Re: NTTD spoiler thread

Post by ns_writings »

dirtybenny wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:09 pm
ns_writings wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:47 pm
Thank you Dirty Benny. I plan to write more on NTTD's failures, and I'm glad I'm not the one to notice how they retconned Madeleine.
The girl I saw in SPECTRE was:

-The daughter of a woman and a Quantum/SPECTRE assassin.
-The three visited Tangier and stayed at L'Americain.
-Mr White's life was so dangerous that he put his family at risk constantly.
-One day, a hitman came to kill Mr White, Madeleine shot him with a gun his father had hidden.
-That event led to the divorce of Mr White and his wife. After that, Madeleine stopped talking with his father.
-She went to the Sorbonne, Medics Sans Frontieres and then got a job at the Hoffler Klinik. Away from his father's violent life.
-Then, Bond came and was brought back to that world.

They retconned Madeleine as a girl who experienced the death of her mother, too and had lots of traumas!
Absolutely right NSW (I hope you don't mind the abbreviation, please call me DB everyone else does),one film later and they can't keep their own character correct! I guess they assume nobody's paying attention and I suppose they're right by the looks of things! Keep up the good work I can't wait to hear more from you!
I prefer NS as those are my proper initials, but NSW its all right anyway :D
Really loved your third entry of No Time To Digest. Bond really acts like "a stupid policeman whose luck runs out", that's the second homage to Dr No besides the dots in the main titles (I cannot believe the same guy who depicted Soviet statues torn down by beautiful girls has now abased himself to depict a chocolate Bond getting destroyed! :hair: ). The first thing that makes Bond a stupid policeman is leaving Madeleine. He's an irresponsible idiot! Even if you are retired, you still keep that spy training, it never leaves you. Love her or hate her, Maddie is a valuable asset! The last thing you should do is letting her go!!! And if Blofeld could put an explosive on a graveyard on Italy from Belmarsh prison, the first thing you should do is taking a plane to London, kick on M's door and ask (Connery style): "Where'sh Blofeld?!"

But no. Let's wait five years and go smoke some grass at Jamaica because we need an excuse for drama and Mathilde :lol:
I keep hearing: "But he's not a spy, he's retired". Oh, really? Then a retired cardiologist is supposed to let someone die of a heart attack? Bond was on holiday in Key West, yet as soon as he heard that "some big drug dealer escaped" he rushed to Leiter's home in LTK. Bond was on leave in Shrublands, yet when he spotted a body being moved and a Tong member, he immediately took action.

I refuse to think this man is James Bond.

On a different note, I saw you wrote about Funko-naga's comments about Connery's Bond being a "rapist".
The Old Scotman sent him his regards, it seems:
https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/10/ ... ude-scene/

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

acid wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:57 am
ns_writings wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:56 am Hello everyone,

I'm a very good friend of John P Drake and... well, let's just say No Time To Die convinced me to join. Read my review: https://goldeneyedossier.wixsite.com/bo ... nal-insult
Welcome NSW and thanks for your interesting NTTD review. :)

Isn't that ridiculous that it shares plot points with the 1967 Casino Royale spoof?

I personally think the idea for Bond's death was simply a case of taking the most dramatic and emotional ending of one of the most highly acclaimed Bond films, OHMSS, even bringing the key line along, and then just reversing the gender roles, so Bond dies instead of his wife this time. Probably because they think Bond's a sexist misogynist and therefore he should be the one it happens to, so 007 can remain a woman. Such a clever twist, eh? :picard:

OK, I get that the death itself was in very different circumstances to Tracy's in OHMSS, but that doesn't excuse or even really improve what they did.

In actual fact this lazy idea of taking a major character's death and some of the related dialog and just flipping it around to finish off the other character was already done in Star Trek: Into Darkness. I don't like the Trek reboot movies by the way and I don't really like when any film reuses material without a really good reason.
I don't follow many franchises outside Bond, certainly not Star Trek or Star Wars and all the Marvel stuff (watched Black Widow for the spy orientation and the Moonraker homages), but I don't like when they kill off the main character. It pretty much depends on the character, that is. But killing of Bond when the idea is that he always survives and have him basically committing suicide because it makes him "look human" is total s**t. I also found this is ideological, and we know where Barbara stands. Had she had some dignity and respect for the people who have payed her and MGW's lunch for 26 years by buying CDs, DVDs, Corgi car replicas and Sideshow action figures and carrying the torch of Bond when people told you "he's from the past", she would have at least sold Bond to someone else. That way, at least I could live with the peace that EON's Bond never died. But killing him off because you don't consider him apt for the 2020s and the "evolution" of society is high treason. A war crime against Fleming, Cubby and Harry. She sold Bond for a fistful of dollars and Oscars and BAFTAs. She sold it to the people who actually hate Bond, those who for years wanted to see him dead and humiliated while posing as "Bond fans" who are "fans just like you and me". If I keep the Craig era merchandising it's just as a way to honour the people who gave it to me: relatives, love interests, friends. But NTTD made me lose the little love I had for that era.
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