"Bond traditionalists"

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan
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Kristatos
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"Bond traditionalists"

Post by Kristatos »

An offhand reference to "Bond traditionalists" in a post by BJMDDS in the General Discussion thread sparked a train of thought in me. Now I know what BJ meant by "Bond traditionalists" - he meant those of us who thought that Bond was better before the reboot, and who this forum is designed to cater for. But the wind is changing. When CR was made, Bourne and Batman dominated the cultural landscape. Dark and serious was in, light and fun was out. Now what do we see? Guardians of the Galaxy is a surprise hit, while Jurassic World is smashing all expectations at the box office. Neither can be described as remotely dark or gritty (and both, incidentally, star Chris Pratt, though I don't know how much of a factor he was in their success).

One wonders how the Bond franchise will respond to this. Every indication so far is that SPECTRE will put all its creative energy into replicating Skyfall's success, like a general still fighting the last war. But sooner or later, pressure is going to come, whether from audiences or from investors. "The New Serious is over", they'll say. "This is what we/they want now". Then, the moment I've long predicted will come - the Craig fans will be the "Bond traditionalists", pining for the days of Bond as an emotional wreck with mommy issues. Meanwhile, we'll be enjoying the new-old retro version of Bond, created somewhat belatedly in response to these trends, while the Craigskis tut-tut about "dumbing down".
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Re: "Bond traditionalists"

Post by John P. Drake »

I see where you're coming from. And that, I believe, would be the case.
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Re: "Bond traditionalists"

Post by dirtybenny »

You are spot on Kris, there were already grumbling about SF containing "corny" elements of the previous Bond incarnations. However to call these people "traditionalists" is a bit of a misnomer. We have 40 years and 20 films to hearken back to in order to make our point, while they will have 4-5 dubiously crafted Freudian exercises to claim as cannon. I'm sure they will try to cherry pick scenes from older films, similar to how EON does today, to justify their beliefs, the killing of Prof. Dent in DN for example, to claim Bond was always meant to be "Dark". But all in all, they will have no more claim to "tradition" then they do now.
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Re: "Bond traditionalists"

Post by Veronica »

Kingsman was also a smash hit and it has a very high rating on imdb and got good reviews. And it's not serious . And I am expecting that U.N.C.L.E will do great as well.
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Re: "Bond traditionalists"

Post by FormerBondFan »

As a traditionalist, I have no desire to see return of the traditional tall and dark-haired Bond especially when Babs The B1tch will still be producer after DC leaves. Give me M:Is, Kingsman, UNCLE and any upcoming Pierce films (although it's slowly moving towards to something similar to Fat Seagal's career today like BJ said).
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"Bond traditionalists"

Post by Omega »

On the changing tide in movie moving away from the broody early 2000s to old fission escapism.

I don't think the bond producers are ignoring the success of movies like kingsmam anymore . If uncle is successful then it will add to the pressure . Plus more and more people who matter ( meaning not is they write us off long ago) are saying they miss the old movies, as kingsmam said over and over

Bond has only endured because people cared about James Bond regardless of who is playing him or how good the movies were. The image of bond stuck in peoples heads was rooted in Connery and the best of stunts and lines of all the others . Ask a average guy on the street to describe bond he will probably describe the bond set up with Connery, far as looks attitude suave sophisticated etc.

They will not describe stunt man wannabe who doesn't give a d**n and his mommy issues .

As long as people care about James Bond and the image they will buy tickets hoping to feel like they did when they first saw bond and knew it was special.

If eon makes too many changes, too emo, black bond , female, another stuntman, keeping the random Craig story lines up and people might no longer care about the name James Bond I think most will recognize how ordinary and bland the recent movies were.

Up until recently it was easily identifiable what made bond movies unique , other movies are starting to successfully make that experience their own, bonds days may be numbered just because the value of the name is slipping.

I know people accused Dalton and brosnan of ruining or damaging bond , thing is they didn't the name and magic of movies being unique never weakened.
After Craig that can't be said , take the name bond out of the movies and nothing changes . Except for maybe skyfall because of the family stuff.

I think eon has to go back maybe rebooting or just ignoring Craig's time. Enough people like the departure but it's become old so I think they have to go back to the Connery through brosnan model of bond . If the wait too long like 2020 there may be no point in goi g back as there maybe 3 or more new franchises parked in their spot .


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Re: "Bond traditionalists"

Post by Veronica »

I think you are spot about pretty much everything Omega. I as well think most people(general public) will go see Craig movies simply because James Bond is in the title but ask them to describe Bond and I doubt they will say sth that would describe Craig. One critic that I met at one dinner said similar thing as well. That the whole huff and puff about Craig is owerblown by media. Which is a smart technique actually cos if people read enough times "Skyfall is the best Bond" and "Craig is the best since Connery" some eventually will start to believe it.
And who said Dalton and Brosnan damaged Bond? Obviously,they didn't since because of the money that came before Barbara led this high lifestyle all her life.
And precisely because of it her request that we should all forget everything we knew about Bond is so hilariously stupid. Its not Craig who created Bond on the screen,he is not the one who reviewed the series when everyone thought James Bond is passe he is not the one who led the Bond through 70's and of 80's and God knows I never got comparisons between Craig and Dalton either.
Her claims that he is "the God of Bonds" is tragic or laughable-depends how you look at it.
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