Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan

Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Kristatos » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:35 am

Did he quit in TWINE? I think it's the only Purvis & Wade-scripted Bond movie where he didn't.

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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Veronica » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:16 am

He didn't, just injured his shoulder. In DAD he was captured but didn't quit himself.
Basically, quitting is solely Craig Bond's thing.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Omega » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:19 pm

It’s that whole reluctant assassin thing with all that angst and ennui, you know the emo emotion embodied by most snowflakes ;)


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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby carl stromberg » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:08 pm

In the next Bond, Craig's Bond will not be in MI6 at the start of the film. He will have quit. He will be living in Norway or soewhere with a big beard to show he is troubled. Then he will go to MI6 and have a shave. :wink:
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Veronica » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:18 am

carl stromberg wrote:In the next Bond, Craig's Bond will not be in MI6 at the start of the film. He will have quit. He will be living in Norway or soewhere with a big beard to show he is troubled. Then he will go to MI6 and have a shave. :wink:


In Norway he'll live as a lumberjack :wink:
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby dirtybenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:02 am

Veronica wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:In the next Bond, Craig's Bond will not be in MI6 at the start of the film. He will have quit. He will be living in Norway or soewhere with a big beard to show he is troubled. Then he will go to MI6 and have a shave. :wink:


In Norway he'll live as a lumberjack :wink:



He'll be selling handmade artisan pickles at the local Oslo farmer's market between the raw milk and patchouli stands, dressed in a pressed flannel shirt and sporting an immaculate beard.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby dirtybenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:54 am

Bourne Again and Again and Again, also Writing on the Wall (or should it be Scribbling on the Stall)


With the news that Bourne Ultimatum scribe Scott Z. Burns has been brought on to Bond 25, I thought it would be an opportune time to take a look back at the Bourne series and address some other writing news. This isn’t meant to be a comprehensive review of the series featuring Damon’s amnesiac spy, but rather a quick primer as it relates to Bond and their new writer. Bourne is rather a one trick pony. See Bourne run, see him fight, see him remember something, see him flee in a car chase and see him fight some more, lather, rinse, repeat. Yes, I realize at his worst Bond isn’t much better, but such uninspiring Bond films are few and far between.

I must admit, I rather enjoyed the first Bourne film. It was a new look at the genre, a spy film for the Blade and Matrix generation, but like those films it hasn’t aged particularly well. Don’t get me wrong, its aged better than some pictures of the era, but on the whole it has sagged a bit over the years. The film very much attempts to capture the Gen X angst of the late 90’s early 2000’s. Also the electro pop soundtrack (which I still personally enjoy) dates the film terribly. All together it’s not a bad action adventure film, nothing that EON needed to abandon their tried and true style to chase after, but a decent film none the less.

The second film The Bourne Supremacy was a respectable follow up. It leaned a bit too heavy on the first, recreating some elements of the earlier film. Such as quickly dispatching police officers (in this film the two holding him in Italy verses the two hassling him in a park in the original), Bourne fighting hand to hand with a fellow operative and using a desktop item as a weapon (a magazine here and in the first a ball point pen). This is also the film that introduces us to the infamous shakey cam.

The third film is where we’re introduced to Mr. Burns’ penmanship, and while he shares credit (or blame) with a few other authors it does not bode well for our favorite British spy. Bourne 3 is a carbon copy of Bourne 2. It may not be as egregious as Bourne 5 (Damon’s 4th), but it’s bad enough. Bourne uses a crowd to escape a sniper and CIA “grab team” as he does in the previous film, he also dispatches a fellow assassin mano a mano, once again using a bit of stationery to disarm the assailant, in this case a book. All this is bad enough yet forgivable; the final act however is where we really enter full blown imitation. Bourne is chased through the streets of a major city in a unorthodox vehicle by a large black SUV, just as the film before, ultimately ending the pursuit by crashing in a tunnel, just as before, points his gun at his pursuer and ultimately decides not to pull the trigger, again just as in the previous film. Bourne again gets his hands on evidence incriminating CIA management and turns it over to operative Pamela Landy. Damon even goes so far as to quote Clive Owen’s character from the first film, all in all not a very original film.

Glossing over the Jeremy Renner vehicle since everyone else did…

The fifth Bourne film, cleverly titled Jason Bourne or the Bourne Redundancy as it’s more commonly known, is just a two hour rehash of the previous three Damon films. It’s a testament to the staying power of Bond that he had lasted so long without becoming so stale. It also shows how terrible an idea it was for EON to abandon everything that separated Bond from such mundane offerings in order to ape a Johnny come lately, flash in the pan series.


In other writing news, apparently Paul Haggis is back to help pen this masterpiece alongside the dynamic hack duo of Purvis and Wade with the aforementioned Mr. Burns. You might recognize Mr. Haggis’ name from the highly over rated Casino Royale where he punched up P and W’s ham handed adaptation of Fleming’s last remaining unfilmed novel. You may also remember him from his failed attempt to go solo on the screenplay for Quantum of Solace, an effort apparently so bad it was deemed preferable to toss it in the trash bin during a writer’s strike and have the film’s director and star write an entirely new script on the fly while filming.

According to the article HERE, Mr. Haggis’ grand idea involved and I kid you not; Bond searching for Vesper’s lost child and abandoning it! So, obviously a man with his finger on the Bond mythos! One can’t help but wonder what fantastic ideas he’ll contribute this time around, especially since they’ve already jumped the carcharodon carcharias in the last film with brother Blofeld.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Omega » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:08 am

Last part about vespers kid reminded me of how Craig and babs talked about bond as the man you love to hate, in Craig’s case he’d make excuses why he wasn’t like Connery, well you see bond hasn’t become the man we love to hate yet. Who the hell at eon loved to hate bond? Guess we know the answer, it all has to be out a political motivation and probably late feminist movement of the late 70s. It had a impact on babs, either through personal contact or reading essays (what writing was called in the preblog era) she was convinced James Bond was a sexist, misogynist pig, enemy to all women. Maybe some of her fathers over sexualized roger Moore movies could come closer to making the requirement (thinking of that creepy guy in the desert who offers bond the companionship of one of his slave girls who in bonds defense seemed into him in a swinging 70s way)

Ian Fleming’s bond, Connery, lazenby, daltion and brosnan bond certainly held up the ideal Ian had for bond, roger to but there were some blatant jail bate scenes(under age skater) in the cubby era meaning the after saltzman era.
Bond always goes out of his way from a damsel in destress, yes Fleming was over sexed in a bill Clinton kind of way but bond was not as bad as that. I’d think in the stifling 50-60s book and movies where women take roles outside the June cleaver role would be some kind of feminist victory..,right?


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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby dirtybenny » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:15 am

Omega wrote:Last part about vespers kid reminded me of how Craig and babs talked about bond as the man you love to hate, in Craig’s case he’d make excuses why he wasn’t like Connery, well you see bond hasn’t become the man we love to hate yet.



Yeah I remember when I first read that, I thought who in the hell is this guy talking about, does he know anything about Bond and his fan base?
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Omega » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:56 am

I remember the elite of the bond fan base being furious at brosnan for The tailor of panama and the matador because he hurt bonds image with those rolls. But not giving a d**n about shaken or stirred, never owning a suit, playing poker, and running through wall as craig bond botched a mission was totally Fleming’s bond. :roll:

I get the average audience not caring too much but the fan base abandoning of the values still confuses me. But in the end perhaps they were victims of EONs half baked movie making. They took to heart the criticisms in Austin Powers, and others, with half baked plots and scripts unfinished as production begins, the truly good bond movies that stand out were few and far between. I think a lot of fans longed to be taken seriously, to have EON take it serious and try to make better movies not just follow cubby’s recipe he worked out over decades to keep key movie ingredients in the film so the audience was happy.
So the pre QOS fan boy desire to have Bourne Bond makes some sense because bond was caught in cliché hell with P&W being the best writers babs and mgw would bother to find.



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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby dirtybenny » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:07 pm

Dang Big O, after a post like that maybe we should rename the thread Omega's Rants! It was certainly time for a course correction after DAD, so anything more down to earth would have done well. The fact they had a Fleming novel to work off of helped to cover their hackery somewhat. The problem with Cubby's recipe was the fact his daughter kept tripling down on it from one film to the next, by the time we got to DAD the "Bond" had been ratcheted up to a thousand.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Veronica » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:08 pm

I don't know how Brosnan could've hurt Bond image with his turn in The Tailor of Panama. Osnard and Bond do have some obvious similarities where they diverge is at the point where one needs to be a hero of the story while Osnard is an antagonist. I also think it's one of the roles with which Brosnan proved he can do something more than a classic sophisticated/charming playboy persona he embodied as Steele/Bond/Thomas Crown.
Isn't that one of the things Craig fans always resented Moore and Brosnan? An assumed notion they only play themselves and are therefore terrible actors in comparison to a major powerhouse Craig is?
Hell, if I were a man I'd be thrilled if I were anywhere near that level of awesomeness
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Kristatos » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:16 pm

Veronica wrote:I don't know how Brosnan could've hurt Bond image with his turn in The Tailor of Panama. Osnard and Bond do have some obvious similarities where they diverge is at the point where one needs to be a hero of the story while Osnard is an antagonist. I also think it's one of the roles with which Brosnan proved he can do something more than a classic sophisticated/charming playboy persona he embodied as Steele/Bond/Thomas Crown.
Isn't that one of the things Craig fans always resented Moore and Brosnan? An assumed notion they only play themselves and are therefore terrible actors in comparison to a major powerhouse Craig is?
Hell, if I were a man I'd be thrilled if I were anywhere near that level of awesomeness
I think the objection was that Brosnan was riffing on his Bond image while playing a complete sleazebag. Let's face it, he was cast in that role precisely because he was Bond.

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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby bjmdds » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:34 pm

The origin of Big O: Once a photographer by day, spy by night, Matt Helm is now a happily retired secret agent, shooting photos of glamorous models instead of guns and enjoying a close relationship with his assistant, the lovely Lovey Kravezit. But then his old boss, Macdonald, coaxes him back to the agency ICE to thwart a new threat from the villainous organization BIG O.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Omega » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:47 pm

Kristatos wrote:
Veronica wrote:I don't know how Brosnan could've hurt Bond image with his turn in The Tailor of Panama. Osnard and Bond do have some obvious similarities where they diverge is at the point where one needs to be a hero of the story while Osnard is an antagonist. I also think it's one of the roles with which Brosnan proved he can do something more than a classic sophisticated/charming playboy persona he embodied as Steele/Bond/Thomas Crown.
Isn't that one of the things Craig fans always resented Moore and Brosnan? An assumed notion they only play themselves and are therefore terrible actors in comparison to a major powerhouse Craig is?
Hell, if I were a man I'd be thrilled if I were anywhere near that level of awesomeness
I think the objection was that Brosnan was riffing on his Bond image while playing a complete sleazebag. Let's face it, he was cast in that role precisely because he was Bond.

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precisely. His portrayal hurt the bond image or so the argument went.


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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby dirtybenny » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:03 am

The Spy Who Loved Her (whether she liked it or not)


Connery’s Bond has been accused in the past of being a bit “rapey”, most point to his seduction of Honor Blackman’s Pussy Galore in Goldfinger as the ultimate example. Let’s take a look at that scene and compare it to another more contemporary love scene.

After Bond is found under Goldfinger’s model, the nefarious bullion merchant asks his sultry aviatrix Miss Pussy Galore to “slip into something more suitable” in order to show Bond a good time, which in turn will convince Felix Leiter, who is watching with field glasses, that Bond needs no assistance.

Bond and Galore enter a barn where he tries to ascertain her true allegiances. She executes a judo throw which sends Bond flying, Bond responds by tripping her. After a few more judo holds and throws, Bond ends up suspending himself over Galore in a push-up like position. He begins to lower himself down to Pussy, she initially resists by pressing back on Bond’s shoulders, as his lips reach hers, she relents and embraces him. It’s the no, no, no… yes, yes, yes trope that was popular at the time

Many take exception with this scene because Bond “forces” himself on Pussy by using his body weight to overcome her “resistance” to his sexual advance. We must remember, Pussy is complicit in a scheme which would kill over 50,000 innocent people in order for Goldfinger to detonate an atomic weapon. All so he can gain value on his glittery commodities. I’m not saying she deserves to be forced into any compromising positions, but considering the stakes at hand Bond trying to “appeal to her maternal instincts” doesn’t seem quite so heinous. Not to mention, who’s to say Bond would have gone any farther had she not reciprocated.

Viewing this scene through the prism of modern values it certainly is “problematic” as the kids say these days. However, this is the hyper fantasy world of 1960’s Bond, when the world as depicted in television’s Mad Men was in full swing. I don’t bring this scene up to condone, legitimize or apologize for this behavior; I simply do so in order to juxtapose it against this other scene…

In the dark, medieval days of 2015 we witness Craig in SPECTRE with the widow Sciarra played by Monica Bellucci. Craig hassles the widow at her husband’s funeral before following her home, where Craig guns down two executioners who’ve come to send Mrs. Sciarra to join her husband in the great beyond. After such romantic introductions Craig is shocked, positively shocked the woman is not in a passionate mood! In a fit of rage he slams down two glasses of champagne he was holding. Craig uses his imposing frame to force Mrs. Sciarra up against a mirror and begins heavily panting while he kisses on her while she literally sobs! It’s never sufficiently established why Craig even bothers with her. Yes we know he’s looking for information, but why from her? Why is he molesting this woman when he could have and should have followed Waltz’ Brofled after the funeral.

Hers’s the difference between the scenes, in Goldfinger the “violence” between Bond and Pussy is playful and reciprocated. Pussy shows she is quite capable of taking care of herself and can physically handle Bond, to say nothing of the fact Goldfinger’s compound is crawling with guards who would respond at a moment’s notice were she to call out.

In Bellucci’s case however, it’s established she’s all alone, no one’s left to help her and the violence in the scene is harsh and jarring. When Craig slams the glasses to the floor they crash with a jolt to the audience. The scene is absolutely disturbing compared to the frisky one between Connery and Blackman. Add to this the tears rolling down Bellucci’s cheeks as Craig undresses her and one can’t help but wonder what in the actual hell was going through the film maker’s minds here?!

When push comes to shove it seems Connery's Bond wasn't any more "rapey" than the contemporary incarnation.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Omega » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:40 am

IMO babs is trying to make bond more like sexual predator since it’s more or less how she sees him. Because that’s how her feminist friends say he is. The woman’s day ad as is all the proof anyone needs that babs has a abject dislike of bond and thinks the character is somehow the embodiment of everything despicable about males, ignoring the bond of the books and especially the early movies would go to great lengths to save the girl. Now it could be argued her dad used sensationalism to build the movies in a more prudish time. Playboys were of the day we’re less risqué than the swimsuit edition of Sports illustrated. So a good looking girl as the sex interest being dressed provocatively was the building block of the franchise, even though by today’s standard it’s tame back in the early days of bond I’m sure cubby and others thought they were pushing the envelope of what would be censored.

Still the point about Craig bond being I dunno more disturbing in his interactions with women goes back to babs and a certain click in Hollywood’s beliefs about what the 60-70s franchise attitudes were. Beside the widow in specter there are many examples going back to CR of inappropriate attitude by Craig Bond toward women in general. Something completely unbond like. Connery’s bond had a appeal to women, overall Connery had a charisma that women loved, his bond movies were not the adventures of bill clintion and bill cosby,






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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Veronica » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:02 pm

I think part of the problem with that SP scene is an inability to present Bond's seductions as genuine. That's actually the problem every movie had since CR. It's like writers are incapable of writing a love encounter that would be at least somewhat believable. Vesper at first sort of hates Bond's guts up to the point where she decides she loves him to death. Bond's seduction of Strawberry Fields and Severine in the next two films comes equally out of nowhere. Same can be said for Madeline Swann. Of course, other part of the problem comes from Craig simply being unconvincing as a seducer. He always seems awkward in love scenes like he would rather be anywhere else. And I think producers are actually aware of this. Hence the rushed and sterile love scenes.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Kristatos » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:15 pm

I'm a little surprised that Bond still has sex, to be honest, given the rising importance of the Indian and Chinese markets, with their more puritanical censorship standards.

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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Postby Veronica » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:10 pm

Kristatos wrote:I'm a little surprised that Bond still has sex, to be honest, given the rising importance of the Indian and Chinese markets, with their more puritanical censorship standards.

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Luckily the producers are still aware that him being a womaniser is one of the most prominent things in the entire franchise. But even though Craig's Bond still has sex it just feels strangely... Asexual.
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