Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Dr. No wrote: You know this is explains a lot of the series, Bond starts out with it's own pacing and theme but even then was copying some of the popular films of the day. IMO made their own take and made Bond films fun. But the series did copy what hot now in movies even LTK was a copy of other popular 80s movies and TV. Moonraker was a look we can be star wars too. IMO Craig's spy is the biggest departure because so much of what made Bond movies fun was thrown away.
I suppose one could say some of the early films were Bond's take on pop culture and the later are pop cultures take on Bond, and today instead of Bond films we have action movies with bond references.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Rant 14

The “racism” of Live and Let Die

Some have the view that the film Live and Let Die (LALD) is “racist”. Simply search for the term and you will be inundated with literally hundreds of claims to the fact. Most however do not offer any proof to back up their beliefs and those that do only present one, which is usually “all of the black characters are villains”. I suppose those folks didn't see Harold Strutter and Quarrel Jr.

Now before we get started let me give you a little detail about me and my perspective. It is true I am a white male and therefore the bane of world society, however Mrs. Benny is black or African American or person of African descent depending on how politically correct you want to be, for brevity’s sake let’s use black here. I feel that uniquely qualifies us to speak on the subject as we have been married for some time, so we don’t feel the need to candy coat or sugar coat or otherwise sweeten our opinions to each other and can talk freely about any subject including race.

So this rant came to fruition while watching LALD on cable T.V. the other week with Mrs. Benny. I remembered how some think of it as “racist”, so I asked my very own Bond Girl what she thought, with a chuckle the answer was a resounding “no, why would it be”.

So now you know where I’m coming from and can better see where we’re going with this.

What makes LALD “racist” well I’ll do you better than those who actually claim it is by giving you examples, then explain why they don’t apply.

1. The liberal use of the word “boy”.
This is the biggest one as it is true that a white man calling a black man “boy” is very disrespectful and racist and in the wrong connotations is just as bad as the N-word. However unlike the N-word boy is not in and of itself derogatory, only when used improperly. So while I can see how some may see a bunch of slack jawed white good ol’boys throwing around the word “boy” as offensive, it’s not in the context of racism in this film. Here the word is much more akin to “pal” or “buddy” as in “watch it pal” or “don’t you know anything buddy”. These boys call everyone “boy” and I mean everyone, including each other and Bond himself. Let’s remember this film was written by Englishmen who were trying to put together dialogue they thought would be coming out of a southerners mouth and thought “boy’ was stereotypical enough to fit.

2. The “Voodoo Ceremony”
The Voodoo scenes are a bit peculiar I suppose and I see how some may be put off by them. But then how exactly does one film a Voodoo scene? And does Voodoo not exist? How does it’s inclusion in a film that takes place in the heart of the Caribbean constitute “racism”

3. My favorite and as I stated at the top the only one offered by those who cry foul is “all the black characters are villains”
As I pointed out there are two “good” black characters but that aside are we not allowed to have black “bad guys”? These same people don’t seem to mind Asian villains in Dr. No, or You Only Live Twice, are they somehow different? I read the occasional gripe about homophobia directed at Mr. Wint and Kidd in Diamonds are Forever but nothing like what we get concerning this movie.

I’ll switch gears here and speak about the go to defense for this movie: “It was made 40 years ago and comes from a different time and we must judge it through the lens of it’s era.” I can’t get behind this, because not only is this film not racist in it’s time but in any time. Sure the movie is dated and as I said in the last rant the “Blaxploitation” theme is a bit grating but there is no reason this film could not be made as is today.

There was a funny movie from the 80’s called “Hollywood Shuffle” about a young black man (Robert Townsend) trying to break in to Hollywood. He lands a role and the Director and producers instruct him to “black it up some more, stick your rear out and slur your words, you know like they do” to which Townsend’s character see’s the folly of Hollywood and quits. Well I don’t see any of that in LALD, the black characters while “Bond Villains” are very real, sure you've got “Whisper” who can’t speak in a full voice and “Tee Hee” has a mechanical arm, and there’s some corny dialogue but none of them come off as caricatures “racist” or otherwise. Compare that to actual “Blaxploitation” films some of which were actually written, produced and directed by black people. These films set the civil rights movement back at least ten years!


Now what’s the over under on someone “Joining this forum just so I can show my displeasure in this racist post”.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Dr. No »

dirtybenny wrote:
Dr. No wrote: You know this is explains a lot of the series, Bond starts out with it's own pacing and theme but even then was copying some of the popular films of the day. IMO made their own take and made Bond films fun. But the series did copy what hot now in movies even LTK was a copy of other popular 80s movies and TV. Moonraker was a look we can be star wars too. IMO Craig's spy is the biggest departure because so much of what made Bond movies fun was thrown away.
I suppose one could say some of the early films were Bond's take on pop culture and the later are pop cultures take on Bond, and today instead of Bond films we have action movies with bond references.
That's a good way of putting it. :cheers:
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by FormerBondFan »

dirtybenny wrote:
Dr. No wrote: You know this is explains a lot of the series, Bond starts out with it's own pacing and theme but even then was copying some of the popular films of the day. IMO made their own take and made Bond films fun. But the series did copy what hot now in movies even LTK was a copy of other popular 80s movies and TV. Moonraker was a look we can be star wars too. IMO Craig's spy is the biggest departure because so much of what made Bond movies fun was thrown away.
I suppose one could say some of the early films were Bond's take on pop culture and the later are pop cultures take on Bond, and today instead of Bond films we have action movies with bond references.
TDK Trilogy and M:I4 are perfect examples of action films with Bond references.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by commander0077again »

dirtybenny wrote:Rant 14

The “racism” of Live and Let Die

Some have the view that the film Live and Let Die (LALD) is “racist”. Simply search for the term and you will be inundated with literally hundreds of claims to the fact. Most however do not offer any proof to back up their beliefs and those that do only present one, which is usually “all of the black characters are villains”. I suppose those folks didn't see Harold Strutter and Quarrel Jr.

Now before we get started let me give you a little detail about me and my perspective. It is true I am a white male and therefore the bane of world society, however Mrs. Benny is black or African American or person of African descent depending on how politically correct you want to be, for brevity’s sake let’s use black here. I feel that uniquely qualifies us to speak on the subject as we have been married for some time, so we don’t feel the need to candy coat or sugar coat or otherwise sweeten our opinions to each other and can talk freely about any subject including race.

So this rant came to fruition while watching LALD on cable T.V. the other week with Mrs. Benny. I remembered how some think of it as “racist”, so I asked my very own Bond Girl what she thought, with a chuckle the answer was a resounding “no, why would it be”.

So now you know where I’m coming from and can better see where we’re going with this.

What makes LALD “racist” well I’ll do you better than those who actually claim it is by giving you examples, then explain why they don’t apply.

Cmdr. 0077: Firstly, allow me to insert a bit of my worldview: there is no such thing as different 'races' in humans, only ethnicities. Darwin's Origin of Species (specious) was subtitled 'the favoured races in their struggle for life' or something like that. During the past thirty years or so (at least) all of Darwin's major assumptions have been proven false. (btw a fine site is UK Apologetics for Darwin expose). It's obvious there's only one human 'race' and this can be proven with hard science. But the popular term 'racist' today means one assumes another 'race' is inferior. If LALD were racist, then one side would be portrayed as 'good and smart' while the other 'bad and dumb.'

1. The liberal use of the word “boy”.
This is the biggest one as it is true that a white man calling a black man “boy” is very disrespectful and racist and in the wrong connotations is just as bad as the N-word. However unlike the N-word boy is not in and of itself derogatory, only when used improperly. So while I can see how some may see a bunch of slack jawed white good ol’boys throwing around the word “boy” as offensive, it’s not in the context of racism in this film. Here the word is much more akin to “pal” or “buddy” as in “watch it pal” or “don’t you know anything buddy”. These boys call everyone “boy” and I mean everyone, including each other and Bond himself. Let’s remember this film was written by Englishmen who were trying to put together dialogue they thought would be coming out of a southerners mouth and thought “boy’ was stereotypical enough to fit.

Cmdr. 0077: "What are you, some kind of doomsday machine, boy?" The sheriff uses this for Our Man Bond. If Bond can be called 'boy' then it obliterates its derogatory power when used with anyone else in the film.

2. The “Voodoo Ceremony”
The Voodoo scenes are a bit peculiar I suppose and I see how some may be put off by them. But then how exactly does one film a Voodoo scene? And does Voodoo not exist? How does it’s inclusion in a film that takes place in the heart of the Caribbean constitute “racism”

Cmdr. 0077: Mr Big admitted he didn't 'discriminate' when applying his evil methods. He wasn't above using Baron Samedi in fake voodoo ceremonies. These scenes can be 'peculiar' to some. I take them with a big grain of salt. Remember Quarrel's advice "Give him one right between the eyes!" Quarrel knew the Baron wasn't supernatural.

3. My favorite and as I stated at the top the only one offered by those who cry foul is “all the black characters are villains”
As I pointed out there are two “good” black characters but that aside are we not allowed to have black “bad guys”? These same people don’t seem to mind Asian villains in Dr. No, or You Only Live Twice, are they somehow different? I read the occasional gripe about homophobia directed at Mr. Wint and Kidd in Diamonds are Forever but nothing like what we get concerning this movie.

Cmdr. 0077: LALD has some of the best villains; I would say the henchmen as a group are excellent. Instead of just one major henchman like Hans or Oddjob or Vargas (!) we get three major henchmen.

I’ll switch gears here and speak about the go to defense for this movie: “It was made 40 years ago and comes from a different time and we must judge it through the lens of it’s era.” I can’t get behind this, because not only is this film not racist in it’s time but in any time. Sure the movie is dated and as I said in the last rant the “Blaxploitation” theme is a bit grating but there is no reason this film could not be made as is today.

Cmdr. 0077: Even though LALD was influenced by the current fad, and that much of the novel could have been grafted into the film, it has high entertainment value, with Moore looking fit and actually being serious at appropriate moments. Too bad they didn't include the 'towed behind the yacht' scene from the book. The vote is still out in Bond's use of his watch-saw. This is one of those Bond moments where you don't think too hard.

There was a funny movie from the 80’s called “Hollywood Shuffle” about a young black man (Robert Townsend) trying to break in to Hollywood. He lands a role and the Director and producers instruct him to “black it up some more, stick your rear out and slur your words, you know like they do” to which Townsend’s character see’s the folly of Hollywood and quits. Well I don’t see any of that in LALD, the black characters while “Bond Villains” are very real, sure you've got “Whisper” who can’t speak in a full voice and “Tee Hee” has a mechanical arm, and there’s some corny dialogue but none of them come off as caricatures “racist” or otherwise. Compare that to actual “Blaxploitation” films some of which were actually written, produced and directed by black people. These films set the civil rights movement back at least ten years!

Now what’s the over under on someone “Joining this forum just so I can show my displeasure in this racist post”.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

I’m a little surprised my last rant didn't attract more comment I thought sure someone lurking in the shadows would have taken exception to what I said and felt the need to join and share their displeasure. Anyhow without further ado:

Rant 15

Cottage Industries Vs. Foreign Influence

Much is being said in other topics on this forum about John Cleese’s theory EON is bowing to international tastes to appeal to a wider audience. This makes sense to me as over the last 10-15 years the series has been on the decline dropping completely off when Craig came aboard. Sucking all the irony and fun out of the films and replacing it with bright colors and flashing images.

This got me thinking and I came up with what I think is a rather good analogy: the auto industry. Currently EON is trying to be all things to all people. In a sense “mass producing” like Ford Motor Cars, when in fact they should be looking to Bond’s favorite brand Aston Martin a “cottage industry” brand. EON and Aston share a few similarities they produce few products, those products are (or in EON’s case were) highly respected, and both command top dollar. Now can Aston keep up with Ford in sheer numbers produced? Of course not, but can Ford keep up with Aston for sheer style and panache? Absolutely not! I think this is also why we’re so angry at EON and their current direction. They were making Astons but suddenly began putting out Ford Focuses.

Now these “Ford” movies may translate better to Mandarin or Italian or Russian but they lack the pizzazz and style the “Astons” put on screen.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by carl stromberg »

You racist Dirty Benny - ban him! (only joking!)/

The Live and Let Die film is not racist - but the book has some dodgy descriptions.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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carl stromberg wrote:You racist Dirty Benny - ban him! (only joking!)/

The Live and Let Die film is not racist - but the book has some dodgy descriptions.
Fleming's attempts to write American dialogue are always fairly risible, but African-American dialogue? Oh dear oh dear.

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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Kristatos wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:You racist Dirty Benny - ban him! (only joking!)/

The Live and Let Die film is not racist - but the book has some dodgy descriptions.
Fleming's attempts to write American dialogue are always fairly risible, but African-American dialogue? Oh dear oh dear.

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Your'e both absolutely right there's no way I can defend the dialogue from the novel!
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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I don't like your "videos", Count_Lippe. I find them a smug, self-satisfied Cop-out to actually posting any written responses or insights about ANYTHING on this Board. I also wasn't certain before, but I am now: I don't like you either. And that's all I have to say to (and about) you.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Omega »

Did not catch what the bond poster said when I was here this morning.
Jesus! Is Craig's buddy anthony cumia posting?


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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by commander0077again »

dirtybenny wrote:I’m a little surprised my last rant didn't attract more comment I thought sure someone lurking in the shadows would have taken exception to what I said and felt the need to join and share their displeasure. Anyhow without further ado:

Rant 15

Cottage Industries Vs. Foreign Influence

Much is being said in other topics on this forum about John Cleese’s theory EON is bowing to international tastes to appeal to a wider audience. This makes sense to me as over the last 10-15 years the series has been on the decline dropping completely off when Craig came aboard. Sucking all the irony and fun out of the films and replacing it with bright colors and flashing images.

Commander 0077: What a Bond coincidence, I was just doing serious :happy spin: research on Johnny English and its sequel. Rowan Atkinson persuaded Rolls Royce to install a V-16 in their Phantom for the sequel, since he wanted a different car from the previous Aston Martin. Strange that the Pierce had to settle for a BMW and Johnny English drives much suaver cars! :cake:

This got me thinking and I came up with what I think is a rather good analogy: the auto industry. Currently EON is trying to be all things to all people. In a sense “mass producing” like Ford Motor Cars, when in fact they should be looking to Bond’s favorite brand Aston Martin a “cottage industry” brand. EON and Aston share a few similarities they produce few products, those products are (or in EON’s case were) highly respected, and both command top dollar. Now can Aston keep up with Ford in sheer numbers produced? Of course not, but can Ford keep up with Aston for sheer style and panache? Absolutely not! I think this is also why we’re so angry at EON and their current direction. They were making Astons but suddenly began putting out Ford Focuses.

Now these “Ford” movies may translate better to Mandarin or Italian or Russian but they lack the pizzazz and style the “Astons” put on screen.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by commander0077again »

Kristatos wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:You racist Dirty Benny - ban him! (only joking!)/

The Live and Let Die film is not racist - but the book has some dodgy descriptions.
Fleming's attempts to write American dialogue are always fairly risible, but African-American dialogue? Oh dear oh dear.

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Ectually, I see the novel's dialogue as high comedy, I remember the classic line, "Lemme be, ise tellin' you!" :typing:
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Blowfeld »

commander0077again wrote:
Kristatos wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:You racist Dirty Benny - ban him! (only joking!)/

The Live and Let Die film is not racist - but the book has some dodgy descriptions.
Fleming's attempts to write American dialogue are always fairly risible, but African-American dialogue? Oh dear oh dear.

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Ectually, I see the novel's dialogue as high comedy, I remember the classic line, "Lemme be, ise tellin' you!" :typing:
Well...
I am not sure what to say about Ian's Live and Let Die, no doubt in today's society it is offensive. However I do not believe he intended it to be such, it was a slice of life from the late 1940s early 1950s. Colourful language and occult fascination were a backdrop for a thriller.

Years ago there was a movie called Harlem Nights to me represents the unfamiliar culture shock he was trying to splash his war ravished British readers with.

Sixty years later the readers are better informed about the realities of life and the prejudice faced and Ian's dime store tourist view of other cultures is not as amusing to us.

However there are some attitudes in black culture in the America which would truly be shocking to most of the world if people were to experience it unvarnished.

Not to diminish the culture at all, it exists as it is because of the shared suffering and hardships experienced.

Ian wrote about what he thought He understood. From his point if view he didn't need to be accurate, he needed to be entertaining captivating his audience in the classic sense of a thriller.

It's not journalism and it's not a documentary, it's pulp fiction for lack of a better word.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by dirtybenny »

Rant 16


It’s Hip To Be Bond

Two things near to my heart have been hijacked by “Hipsters” over the years. These are Fedora hats (Trilby to you Brits) and From Russia with Love.

For those who are lucky enough to not know what a Hipster is. They are individuals who wear unfortunate facial hair “ironically” (despite not knowing the definition of the word) paired with $300 jeans, an “ironic” 1980’s T-shirt from a Target department store, and topped with and even cheaper fedora hat from further down that Target aisle.

Hipsters love to be off the beaten pop culture path. They abhor popular material be it movies, T.V. and especially music. They drone on ad-nauseam about how this band or that group “sold out” because they became popular, and how they have superior taste to you, because they're currently listening to authentic Appalachian hill-billy jug band music on pitchfork.com

How does this tie in to Bond? Well, since Craig took over the role his “gritty” “realistic” approach has drawn a great deal of attention from these Hipsters who disliked Bond previously due to the fact that it was so “mainstream”. They were the ones who touted Bourne and the other anti-hero spies when they came out about 15 years ago. Now that Bond isn't “Bond” anymore they've come rushing in to fill the void us classic fans left.

How this ties to FRWL is how these individuals rank Bond films. Normally a Hipster wouldn't touch an icon like Connery with a ten foot pole due to his immense popularity and critical acclaim. They would rather back Lazenby due to his short run he would be seen as an “underground” choice. However, Connery is so ingrained in to the collective mindset as Bond he can’t be ignored, not to mention he and Craig are probably the only two Bonds they know.

Now on to my point, Goldfinger is regarded by most as not only the best Connery film but the best Bond of all time. This won’t do for Hipsters they need to be subculture, so they latch on to From Russia with Love as the “Best Bond”. They act as if they discovered something, as if they’re “sticking it to the man” by making this assertion. I've read it on other forums many times, people slamming GF and praising FRWL. I say all this as a huge fan of FRWL, it’s my favorite Bond, but I also love GF just as I love The Spy who Loved Me, The Living Daylights and On Her Majesty’s Secret Service.

Now we all have our favorites, our differences are what make Bond Fandom and for that matter live itself so interesting. However Hipsterism is snobbishness, it tears down other’s opinions to make theirs seem superior. That is what I take umbrage to, it’s sheer bullying.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by The Saint 007 »

There are fans that enjoy both the classic and Craig style of Bond, but many of the new fans that have come in the Craig era pretty much can't stand anything about classic Bond. The Brosnan era did bring in a new generation of fans, but I've personally never heard them complain about the various elements of cinematic Bond. While there's always been arguments amongst fans about who is the best Bond, the most heated argument amongst fans now, however, is about the classic and Craig style of Bond. The reboot really split the fan base, and trying to please both sides isn't going to be easy for the filmmakers.
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Count_Lippe »

Hmm, my impression is that GF is primarily regarded as the best Bond by critics and general moviegoers, while FRWL and OHMSS are the "real" Bond fans favourites.

If hipsters really wanted to be subculture they should praise Dr No instead. :lol:
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Count_Lippe
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Re: Dirty Benny's Weekly Rant

Post by Count_Lippe »

From Rant 11:

Another excuse the code name believers use is the fact Bond is not recognized by people he met previously. The go to example is OHMSS, where Blofeld doesn't immediately recognize Bond upon meeting at Piz Gloria despite having been face to face in YOLT. However Specter has had a selective memory for Bond’s face from the beginning. In FRWL Specter was so familiar with Bond not only did they know exactly who Bond was and that he would be the one sent to retrieve the Lector decoder they even had a mask made of his face to use during training! Yet in Thunderball Count Lippe has no idea who he is until Bond is caught snooping in his room by Angelo. In YOLT MI6 does the enemies of the free world a favor by plastering Bond’s face across the frot page of the newspaper in a false obituary yet Mr. Osato and his assistant #11 have no idea who he is. So the fact Blofeld doesn’t know him at first in OHMSS is minimal at best.

I think Count Lippe knew who Bond was though when he tried to kill him in the spinal traction machine, the line "Nice to have met you Mr...Bond" sort of suggests this. Maybe Lippe didn't recognize Bond at first, but after Bond was caught snooping in the room by Angelo they probably checked him up. Lippe was likely not a member of Spectre at the time of FRWL.

Also Mr. Osato and Helga Brandt know who Bond is, but they don't realize that Mr. Fisher is Bond beacause "Bond is dead it was in all the newspapers". A bit daft perhaps but at least the filmmakers tried to give some explanation.

That Blofeld doesn't recognize Bond when they meet at Piz Gloria is much worse though I think, even if Bond is "disguised" as Sir Hilary Bray, since they met face to face in the previous film.
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