The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

General Bond discussion from Sean Connery to Pierce Brosnan
Post Reply
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

Card games, falling in love, being betrayed? Not exactly what the prior successful 20 Bond films were all about, correct? If this is what you feel made CR a success, where do they now go?
User avatar
Skywalker
002
Posts: 1736
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:11 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Live and Let Die
Goldfinger
The Spy Who Loved Me
Quantum of Solace.......Hmmm
Favorite Movies: Batman Begins
The Dark Knoght
Shawshank Redemption
Platoon
Top Gun
Aliens
Location: On the side of truth and honesty. No room for sheep - just shepherds.
Contact:

Post by Skywalker »

carl stromberg wrote:
stockslivevan wrote:
Well well well BJ. Have you left MI6 for good? I know you'd lose your temper over there for not comprehending others objective opinions
I think you mean subjective opinions! :wink:
Bjmdds wrote
Both sites have there pitbull attack dogs ready to go whenever someone even hints that CR with DC is no longer a Bond film,
Skywalker and Bjmdds are hereby designated as DCINB forum attack dogs....... :lol:
With my balanced and constructed opinions and overall fair appraisal of DC, I would hardly call me an Attack dog. :wink:
User avatar
Skywalker
002
Posts: 1736
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:11 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Live and Let Die
Goldfinger
The Spy Who Loved Me
Quantum of Solace.......Hmmm
Favorite Movies: Batman Begins
The Dark Knoght
Shawshank Redemption
Platoon
Top Gun
Aliens
Location: On the side of truth and honesty. No room for sheep - just shepherds.
Contact:

Re: Where does EON take Craig's Bond now?

Post by Skywalker »

The Sweeney wrote: As for Craig's acting, the BAFTA's obviously wouldn't agree with you, nor would the critics in general..... :wink:
It was a fine acting performance, it's a shame he couldn't convert it to a Bond performance.
User avatar
The Sweeney
003
Posts: 3388
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: OHMSS, GF, LTK, CR, FRWL
Favorite Movies: Bullitt, The Long Good Friday, The Towering Inferno, Jaws, Rocky, Superman the Movie, McVicar, Goodfellas, Get Carter, Three Days of the Condor, Butch & Sundance, The Sting, All the Presidents Men
Location: Underneath a Mango Tree....

Post by The Sweeney »

bjmdds wrote:Card games, falling in love, being betrayed? Not exactly what the prior successful 20 Bond films were all about, correct? If this is what you feel made CR a success, where do they now go?
Card games have been in just about every other Bond film. Falling in love? Only one other time - OHMSS. To ignore these two significant moments in Bond's history - the death of Vesper and the death of Tracey - is ignoring what the literary character was about. These two moments really defined him in the novels. Are you saying the producers should have ignored these elements from both OHMSS and CR?

Being betrayed? He gets betrayed in one form or another in quite a lot of Bond films, whether it be women, or male double-agents.
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

The Sweeney wrote:
bjmdds wrote:Card games, falling in love, being betrayed? Not exactly what the prior successful 20 Bond films were all about, correct? If this is what you feel made CR a success, where do they now go?
Card games have been in just about every other Bond film. Falling in love? Only one other time - OHMSS. To ignore these two significant moments in Bond's history - the death of Vesper and the death of Tracey - is ignoring what the literary character was about. These two moments really defined him in the novels. Are you saying the producers should have ignored these elements from both OHMSS and CR?

Being betrayed? He gets betrayed in one form or another in quite a lot of Bond films, whether it be women, or male double-agents.
What I am saying is that these are not elements of what made James Bond films the success they have been. Those things are superficial augmentations to the exciting espionage thrills that a Bond film is supposed to be. Your premise that Bond's love affairs ,or card playing, as being a major factor in the franchise's success over 40 years does not cut it, and you get this in CR only Sweeney, one time, Vesper's gone, now what, Bond having an Oedipus complex with M?
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Re: Where does EON take Craig's Bond now?

Post by bjmdds »

Skywalker wrote:
The Sweeney wrote: As for Craig's acting, the BAFTA's obviously wouldn't agree with you, nor would the critics in general..... :wink:
It was a fine acting performance, it's a shame he couldn't convert it to a Bond performance.
Craig is a good character actor for dark or strange roles, not for a secret agent named James Bond, IMO.
User avatar
The Sweeney
003
Posts: 3388
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: OHMSS, GF, LTK, CR, FRWL
Favorite Movies: Bullitt, The Long Good Friday, The Towering Inferno, Jaws, Rocky, Superman the Movie, McVicar, Goodfellas, Get Carter, Three Days of the Condor, Butch & Sundance, The Sting, All the Presidents Men
Location: Underneath a Mango Tree....

Post by The Sweeney »

bjmdds wrote:
The Sweeney wrote:
bjmdds wrote:Card games, falling in love, being betrayed? Not exactly what the prior successful 20 Bond films were all about, correct? If this is what you feel made CR a success, where do they now go?
Card games have been in just about every other Bond film. Falling in love? Only one other time - OHMSS. To ignore these two significant moments in Bond's history - the death of Vesper and the death of Tracey - is ignoring what the literary character was about. These two moments really defined him in the novels. Are you saying the producers should have ignored these elements from both OHMSS and CR?

Being betrayed? He gets betrayed in one form or another in quite a lot of Bond films, whether it be women, or male double-agents.
What I am saying is that these are not elements of what made James Bond films the success they have been. Those things are superficial augmentations to the exciting espionage thrills that a Bond film is supposed to be. Your premise that Bond's love affairs ,or card playing, as being a major factor in the franchise's success over 40 years does not cut it, and you get this in CR only Sweeney, one time, Vesper's gone, now what, Bond having an Oedipus complex with M?
No, the success over the years has mainly been down to the more light-hearted approach, gadgets, OTT villains, etc. and not the grittier aspects of Fleming's novels, that have only appeared on screen accurately during a handful of the Bond films.

But times have changed, tastes have changed, the world has changed, in no small part to 9/11. That was the big wake-up call to tongue-in-cheek heroes in spy films. DAD tried to ignore post 9/11 attitudes, and although it initially got bums on seats, I don't recall a film getting such a backlash as DAD has managed to create, ever since. EON were too set in their ways back then, and didn't change with the times. They used to be the trend-setters, and be in check with modern times and trends, but with DAD they got left by the wayside, and everyone else caught up, and then surpassed them.

Who would have thought this new Bond approach would have been so successful? You for one never thought it would, but it has. EON realised they had to change to catch up, and they have caught up. In fact, the new CR feels as though we are in unfamiliar territory, where they are being risky again, adventurous, ground-breaking, era defining - like they where back in 1962 with a whole new adventure hero concept for the cinema.

And I truly believe we are in for more of the same with Bond 22, both in terms of film approach, and the BO success. All hail EON for having the balls to do this, and for it succeeding beyond anyones wildest expectations, when really they could have stuck with the tried and tested formula of DAD.

EON are back on top again, ahead of the game, leaders of the pack, for everyone else to try and compete with. Let's hope they stay that way!

Bond is back!!!
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

The Sweeney wrote:
bjmdds wrote:
The Sweeney wrote:
bjmdds wrote:Card games, falling in love, being betrayed? Not exactly what the prior successful 20 Bond films were all about, correct? If this is what you feel made CR a success, where do they now go?
Card games have been in just about every other Bond film. Falling in love? Only one other time - OHMSS. To ignore these two significant moments in Bond's history - the death of Vesper and the death of Tracey - is ignoring what the literary character was about. These two moments really defined him in the novels. Are you saying the producers should have ignored these elements from both OHMSS and CR?

Being betrayed? He gets betrayed in one form or another in quite a lot of Bond films, whether it be women, or male double-agents.
What I am saying is that these are not elements of what made James Bond films the success they have been. Those things are superficial augmentations to the exciting espionage thrills that a Bond film is supposed to be. Your premise that Bond's love affairs ,or card playing, as being a major factor in the franchise's success over 40 years does not cut it, and you get this in CR only Sweeney, one time, Vesper's gone, now what, Bond having an Oedipus complex with M?
No, the success over the years has mainly been down to the more light-hearted approach, gadgets, OTT villains, etc. and not the grittier aspects of Fleming's novels, that have only appeared on screen accurately during a handful of the Bond films.

But times have changed, tastes have changed, the world has changed, in no small part to 9/11. That was the big wake-up call to tongue-in-cheek heroes in spy films. DAD tried to ignore post 9/11 attitudes, and although it initially got bums on seats, I don't recall a film getting such a backlash as DAD has managed to create, ever since. EON were too set in their ways back then, and didn't change with the times. They used to be the trend-setters, and be in check with modern times and trends, but with DAD they got left by the wayside, and everyone else caught up, and then surpassed them.

Who would have thought this new Bond approach would have been so successful? You for one never thought it would, but it has. EON realised they had to change to catch up, and they have caught up. In fact, the new CR feels as though we are in unfamiliar territory, where they are being risky again, adventurous, ground-breaking, era defining - like they where back in 1962 with a whole new adventure hero concept for the cinema.

And I truly believe we are in for more of the same with Bond 22, both in terms of film approach, and the BO success. All hail EON for having the balls to do this, and for it succeeding beyond anyones wildest expectations, when really they could have stuck with the tried and tested formula of DAD.

EON are back on top again, ahead of the game, leaders of the pack, for everyone else to try and compete with. Let's hope they stay that way!

Bond is back!!!
The Sweeney believes change is for the good, but a change to what? You believe EON is the LEADER of the pack??? Just take a look at what the physical Bourne/Bauer characters look like, take a look at the fight scenes camera interpretation, and take a look at the serious, dark nature, of both of these spy films. Which came first, CR's Bond OR 24's Bauer and Jason Bourne, in the new decade? Broccoli admitted she was enthralled by these films perceptions. Eon the leader? More like the copycat, with a built in following of prior fans to try out their Bourned up Bond on. It worked once, Sweeney, but does Craig only live twice?
User avatar
stockslivevan
SPECTRE 02
Posts: 3249
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:13 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love
Location: Crab Key

Post by stockslivevan »

bjmdds wrote:Card games
Almost in every film. When hasn't Bond played cards? It's one of his signature moments and it happens to be part of the plot for the film.
falling in love
Happened once.
being betrayed?
Surely you didn't forget Live and Let Die, The Living Daylights, GoldenEye, The World is Not Enough, Die Another Day?
Not exactly what the prior successful 20 Bond films were all about, correct?
They were all different but always had the basic story outline "Bond is assigned a mission, chases villian, saves the day, gets the girl" with only the final part not included twice and so far no one but the anti-CRs have complained about that.
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

No,that is not what I am saying. The point is CR offered NOTHING that has not been seen before in a Bond film, as the Sweeney suggested. There is no great revelation in CR, just a different looking Bond who does much less quips and a lot more violence. Tell me, what was so great in Craig's performance in CR that a Jackman or an Owen could not do, except that they were not in Broccoli's price range?
User avatar
stockslivevan
SPECTRE 02
Posts: 3249
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:13 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love
Location: Crab Key

Post by stockslivevan »

bjmdds wrote:No,that is not what I am saying. The point is CR offered NOTHING that has not been seen before in a Bond film, as the Sweeney suggested. There is no great revelation in CR, just a different looking Bond who does much less quips and a lot more violence. Tell me, what was so great in Craig's performance in CR that a Jackman or an Owen could not do, except that they were not in Broccoli's price range?
Brought back that edge Connery and Dalton posessed.
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

IF allowed, Brosnan, Jackman, Purefoy, or Owen could not be just as edgy?
User avatar
stockslivevan
SPECTRE 02
Posts: 3249
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:13 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love
Location: Crab Key

Post by stockslivevan »

bjmdds wrote:IF allowed, Brosnan, Jackman, Purefoy, or Owen could not be just as edgy?
Jackman can be edgy, I mean he is best known as Wolverine, which disqualified him having the chance to be Bond since 2000. I don't understand how people believed he could really play Bond one day, I mean you can dream all you like. I always imagine what Dalton would have done with GoldenEye, performing against Sean Bean sounds brilliant, but the reality is that he will never be in GoldenEye and I accept that. Do you really think a movie star who's breakout role as Wolverine had a chance? Honestly, even a fake news article saying Owen is the new Bond is more convincing.

Brosnan? Please. When he tried to be edgy he tried too hard for it. It just doesn't work right for him, even Roger Moore knew he couldn't be edgy as Connery so he reinvented the role to a more soft Bond. Brosnan tried to be both Connery and Moore with a hint of Dalton in TWINE but it never worked the way he inteneded, esspecially with his limited acting.

Of course you will say "If they allowed him he could have!". You forget? All the actors were given a chance to do what they wanted with the character. Dalton wanted to turn Bond from the softie playboy Roger Moore Bond into the Ian Fleming inspired Bond and none of the producers fussed about it. Even Roger Moore's Bond was drastically different from Connery's but the producers didn't mind that and let him go with his interpretation of the character. Brosnan was allowed, he just made bad choices trying to combine his predecessors and it was all mixed up. Brosnan is cold as Timothy Dalton one moment, suddenly he turns into Roger Moore humor on the next scene. Best example is in Tomorrow Never Dies where his apparent lover is killed then on the very next scene he is grinning his ass off as if he is having the time of his life. It would have been more convincing if he was letting all his anger out on those gangsters for the death of Paris. After he is satisfied by sending them to hell, he moves on with the mission.
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

Do you mean the directors have less to do with the way Bond is portrayed than the actual actor playing the role? Brosnan wanted Bond to be more 'real', and he was never given the opportunity. Jackman as Wolverine should not disqualify him as a candidate for Bond. Craig has had numerous off-beat roles and that did not stop Eon from hiring him. If Craig can be accepted as Bond with his stature and looks, Jackman would certainly be able to pass the test as well, maybe even more convincingly and less polarizing than Craig as well.
User avatar
stockslivevan
SPECTRE 02
Posts: 3249
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:13 am
Favorite Bond Movie: From Russia with Love
Location: Crab Key

Post by stockslivevan »

bjmdds wrote:Do you mean the directors have less to do with the way Bond is portrayed than the actual actor playing the role? Brosnan wanted Bond to be more 'real', and he was never given the opportunity. Jackman as Wolverine should not disqualify him as a candidate for Bond. Craig has had numerous off-beat roles and that did not stop Eon from hiring him. If Craig can be accepted as Bond with his stature and looks, Jackman would certainly be able to pass the test as well, maybe even more convincingly and less polarizing than Craig as well.
You misunderstood my point. It's not the role of Wolverine that disqualifies Hugh Jackman, it's his star power. Eversince he took that role seven years ago he became a movie star and any Bond fan would know that a movie star is NEVER hired to play James Bond. So far they have casted two complete unknowns like Connery and Lazenby, has-been TV stars like Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnan, and finally theatre and character actors like Timothy Dalton and Daniel Craig. Granted, besides Connery and Lazenby, all the actors were somewhat well known but they never achieved movie star status until they took the role of Bond.
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

Is that because Eon likes total control at a cheap price and exploits their Bonds, or they are afraid to have a 'Jackman' type outshine them? Maybe it IS time for them to use star power to promote Bond. Craig did $593 million with CR as a basic no-name. How high could Jackman have taken CR, $700 million? We will never know UNTIL Eon allows this.
User avatar
The Sweeney
003
Posts: 3388
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: OHMSS, GF, LTK, CR, FRWL
Favorite Movies: Bullitt, The Long Good Friday, The Towering Inferno, Jaws, Rocky, Superman the Movie, McVicar, Goodfellas, Get Carter, Three Days of the Condor, Butch & Sundance, The Sting, All the Presidents Men
Location: Underneath a Mango Tree....

Post by The Sweeney »

bjmdds wrote:Is that because Eon likes total control at a cheap price and exploits their Bonds, or they are afraid to have a 'Jackman' type outshine them? Maybe it IS time for them to use star power to promote Bond. Craig did $593 million with CR as a basic no-name. How high could Jackman have taken CR, $700 million? We will never know UNTIL Eon allows this.
It will never happen, bj. EON don't promote big stars as a rule in the Bond films, especially not the actor playing Bond. None of the 6 actors who have played Bond were big international stars before playing Bond, and I doubt this will change anytime in the near future.

It's something that has worked well, so why ever change it? No one wants to see an established film star suddenly become Bond. It wouldn't work, the same way it would never have worked had Christopher Reeve been a big household name before Superman.
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

Why not? You would not go see CR if Jackman was Bond? Of course you would, and IF that star power adds another $100 million to the pot, why not? Could it be EON has lost out on a ton of revenue due to their own arrogance Sweeney?
User avatar
Captain Nash
SPECTRE 01
Posts: 2751
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:44 am
Favorite Bond Movie: Octopussy
From Russia With Love
The Living Daylights
On Her Majestys Secret Service
Doctor No
....
Ah heck all of them
Favorite Movies: Lawrence Of Arabia, Forrest Gump, Jaws, The Shawshank Redemption, Vertigo, The Odd Couple, Zoolander, Cool Hand Luke, The Great Escape...many more.
Location: Well here obviously. At the moment of course

Post by Captain Nash »

bjmdds wrote:Why not? You would not go see CR if Jackman was Bond? Of course you would, and IF that star power adds another $100 million to the pot, why not? Could it be EON has lost out on a ton of revenue due to their own arrogance Sweeney?
No they decided to get a better actor for the role, than having another pretty boy with limited acting abilities.
So many people seem to have a chip on there shoulders that Brosnan was dropped (his contract had expired. Get over it) or that Daniel Craig was hired instead of there favourite possible actor, but it's not our decision to make. As fans we have a right to our opinions but not to the casting choices of a film company.
bj your endless rants I've seen at other sites have now made there way here. Where you probably feel at home. But despite the sites name there are a few descent posters on here with an open mind able to discuss things. You keep going over the same crap that you or anyone else can't change. So you don't like Craig or Casino Royale, you hate Eon and think you know best.
Put your dummy back in and get over it pal.
User avatar
bjmdds
001
Posts: 14303
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm
Favorite Bond Movie: Any without CR-egg in it.

Post by bjmdds »

"Red wine with fish, that should have told me something". What rants? Open discussion about decisions Eon made is fair game, as a Bond follower of 40 years. You obviously have your own 'ranting' opinions as well, so enjoy them. Craig IS Bond for now, but we will see how long his 'off-beat' Bond lasts in popularity. By the way, I do not see this forum site locking popular threads like is done on other sites, a definite plus here.
Post Reply