The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[Kristatos]

Again I think Babs is a soft racist putting people of color in token roles to build up her image, like her father did for feminist when he put women with clipboards in scenes (as Babs calls them)
I don’t think the average public is as hung up on race and sex casting as Hollywood is.

Yeah, EON like to dangle the prospect of radical change in front of people in order to generate headlines, but at the end of the day, they ultimately play it safe. On the other hand, they have shown themselves incapable of long-term thinking, as evidenced by the way Craig's arc has been made up as they went along, in contrast to the meticulous planning of the MCU. That's why, while I don't think it will happen, I am reluctant to entirely count out the possibility of them killing off a beloved cultural icon and replacing him with a brand-new character, only to suffer buyers' remorse a couple of years later when/if the first Nomi movie tanks.

[Omega]

Again I think Babs is a soft racist putting people of color in token roles to build up her image, like her father did for feminist when he put women with clipboards in scenes (as Babs calls them)
I don’t think the average public is as hung up on race and sex casting as Hollywood is.

Yeah, EON like to dangle the prospect of radical change in front of people in order to generate headlines, but at the end of the day, they ultimately play it safe. On the other hand, they have shown themselves incapable of long-term thinking, as evidenced by the way Craig's arc has been made up as they went along, in contrast to the meticulous planning of the MCU. That's why, while I don't think it will happen, I am reluctant to entirely count out the possibility of them killing off a beloved cultural icon and replacing him with a brand-new character, only to suffer buyers' remorse a couple of years later when/if the first Nomi movie tanks.

They have played it very safe, even the bond begins arc they don’t shake it up much unless you are a fan who liked Bond movies. For average movie goers it’s the same formula, with Craig eon used other popular movies as sources for the drama that never existed in Fleming’s 007.

One of Babs early claims was this was a planned arc. Obviously she made it up last minute right before filming and the films feel that way. I also think Craig is influenced by the Jackman wolverine trilogy, and he’d like to pass off the torch like jackman did in Logan.



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[bjmdds]

Screenrant.com suggestion: As well as resetting the James Bond franchise, a historic 1960s story would satisfy the long-standing calls for 007 to return to his roots. Fans of all generations talk of Sean Connery with a wistful eye, still holding the original Bond era as the greatest. A return to the 1960s would acknowledge the inescapable undercurrent of nostalgia haunting the James Bond franchise, but since no 007 movie has ever strayed from its contemporary setting, a 2020s actor playing 1960s Bond would break new ground - a fine balance between retro and progressive. Sequels could then follow Bond through the decades.----------I doubt Broccoli would agree to this as she wants to move 'forward' in her image.

[Kristatos]

Screenrant.com suggestion: As well as resetting the James Bond franchise, a historic 1960s story would satisfy the long-standing calls for 007 to return to his roots. Fans of all generations talk of Sean Connery with a wistful eye, still holding the original Bond era as the greatest. A return to the 1960s would acknowledge the inescapable undercurrent of nostalgia haunting the James Bond franchise, but since no 007 movie has ever strayed from its contemporary setting, a 2020s actor playing 1960s Bond would break new ground - a fine balance between retro and progressive. Sequels could then follow Bond through the decades.----------I doubt Broccoli would agree to this as she wants to move 'forward' in her image.

This is one of those ideas that remains unaccountably popular among the fans, but which I can't imagine EON, or the mainstream audience, going for. The Man From UNCLE movie had a 1960s period setting, and that wasn't a hit. When I suggested on, I think, a Facebook comments thread that there was no real reason for them to do this, somebody came back with "but Titanic had a period setting, and that was a hit." How do you even begin with logic like that?

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[Omega]

Screenrant.com suggestion: As well as resetting the James Bond franchise, a historic 1960s story would satisfy the long-standing calls for 007 to return to his roots. Fans of all generations talk of Sean Connery with a wistful eye, still holding the original Bond era as the greatest. A return to the 1960s would acknowledge the inescapable undercurrent of nostalgia haunting the James Bond franchise, but since no 007 movie has ever strayed from its contemporary setting, a 2020s actor playing 1960s Bond would break new ground - a fine balance between retro and progressive. Sequels could then follow Bond through the decades.----------I doubt Broccoli would agree to this as she wants to move 'forward' in her image.

This is one of those ideas that remains unaccountably popular among the fans, but which I can't imagine EON, or the mainstream audience, going for. The Man From UNCLE movie had a 1960s period setting, and that wasn't a hit. When I suggested on, I think, a Facebook comments thread that there was no real reason for them to do this, somebody came back with "but Titanic had a period setting, and that was a hit." How do you even begin with logic like that?

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I wouldn’t bother with man from uncle as a comparison, yes the original was part of the romanticized Fleming spy world but Mr Madonna completely missed the target, he purposely avoided trading on bond territory. X-men first class is a better example of what is possible as are kingsmen although the new retro film will prove if they have the knack for telling the style of story in any time period.

I don’t think bond has to be reset to retro to work, some problems with the audience not being enchanted by the historical settings or taking the wrong messaging from the movie unless or because the modern writers and directors will try to make statements about past realities.
But there are far more brit series that use the past successfully, if bond does do this I’d steer clear of the gritty cold war reality, other spy writers and series have done, while interesting I get tired of how the cia and others betrayed their allies for a weird double guessing chess game with the reds.


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[Kristatos]

I don't exactly have a *problem* with a '60s-set Bond, I just don't see any compelling reason to do it. It seems to be a form of magical thinking: "the best Bond films were made in the '60s, therefore, if we set a new film in the '60s, it'll be as good as FRWL or Goldfinger."

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[Kristatos]

Meanwhile, via Twitter:

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[Omega]

I don't exactly have a *problem* with a '60s-set Bond, I just don't see any compelling reason to do it. It seems to be a form of magical thinking: "the best Bond films were made in the '60s, therefore, if we set a new film in the '60s, it'll be as good as FRWL or Goldfinger."

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True, bond had more adventures in the 1950s in the books. I don’t think it has to be set to the past, Batman and the marvel movies don’t have to be in their original eras to work. Just get talented writers to tell the story. Christoper Nolan not to bring him up too much because he’s the fanboys dream show runner, but he can write and direct the correct feel for a bond movie without having to be retro. Now there are other problems with his directing style and casting choices that I think bond fans would eventually hate if he had the job.


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[Omega]

Meanwhile, via Twitter:

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This is where I thought it would end up, except I think apple or amazon will be the top contenders with a bid to buy mgm as well. For mgm it’s a win if they can drop this turkey on another studio/investor and be clear if it when the fall out happens


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[dirtybenny]

I don't exactly have a *problem* with a '60s-set Bond, I just don't see any compelling reason to do it. It seems to be a form of magical thinking: "the best Bond films were made in the '60s, therefore, if we set a new film in the '60s, it'll be as good as FRWL or Goldfinger."

I totally agree, a return to the 60's? Eh, I mean if it's done right, it was a stylish time and aesthetically it would be cool, but I fear as Omega states they'd try to cudgel the fans with the era's social shortcomings. To the Screenrant author's statement that "Fans of all generations talk of Sean Connery with a wistful eye, still holding the original Bond era as the greatest." misses the point, the Connery era is remembered fondly because it was good, not because it took place in the 60's.

[Kristatos]

And I think the Kingsmen films do a good job of replicating that Connery-era aesthetic while retaining a contemporary setting.

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[Omega]

I agree it wasn’t the 60s it was putting together good movies that followed a good story.
Cubby eventually came up with a formula which fans came to trust even when the movies had seen their best days already.
Although I think TLD and GE were the to “modern” movies to come closer to the original Connery era. I enjoy the dalton brosnan era but to me those two films captured the feel Fleming wanted and helped find in the first films.

Problem with cubby’s formula is its been shaken down to a list of action sequences with drama filler in between. Kind of like the formula for the transformers movies now. Eon spends more time worrying about actions scenes than making the movie.

I felt first class was a really good example of what could be done with the correct feel and story telling to recapture what the bond movies had. In a way marvel has recaptured so of that know how, not exactly as the early saltzman broccoli films marvel captures a atmosphere where the audience wants to be




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[bjmdds]

MGM, the studio behind the film, reportedly lost between $30 million to $50 million due to the delays, insiders said. Insiders at the studio insist the Bond sequel is not for sale, but supposedly their price tag was $600 million and nobody bought it.

[Omega]

MGM, the studio behind the film, reportedly lost between $30 million to $50 million due to the delays, insiders said. Insiders at the studio insist the Bond sequel is not for sale, but supposedly their price tag was $600 million and nobody bought it.

For the studio that would cut out all the middle men distributing it and bring a hearty profit. If someone offers $450 with something to sweeten the deal I’d bet mgm takes


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[Kristatos]

Deadline now saying that the deal is dead in the water: https://deadline.com/2020/10/james-bond ... 234602960/

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[dirtybenny]

Eon and MGM need to realize Skyfall was the exception and not the rule, Bond is not a billion dollar property, it's a niche series with a rabid fanbase that could potentially bring in big money if the general public gets inspired enough to see it, as was the case in 2012. Take into account all the bad press since production began on this film killing the anticipation and underperformance is the likely outcome. No wonder the streamers balked at a $600 mil price tag.

[Omega]

I love the line “expected billion dollars” mgm needs 600 million to get out of it with a profit. Like DB said they need to realize it’s not a billion dollar property every time out. Spectre fell far behind skyfall, even with inflation I doubt it’ll be be able to break the billion dollar mark.

I honestly think MGM would like to transition the discussion of buying bond to buying mgm, but like deadline said they already have rights and distribution deals for nttd signed, now if there clauses to protect buyers if the movie isn’t released it may harm mgm more to sell the last movie. Who ever buys nttd will want exclusivity worldwide for that kind of money. Hell this all could be an elaborate insurance scam. It would be funny if universal done how has the rights to release the movie direct to vod and does it anyway.

Babs nixing the dear is classic her, she’s screwed over mgm so many times now I wonder if she isn’t trying to get the right mgm has reverted back to the saltzman family.


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[Kristatos]

I think NTTD's fortunes will largely be down to luck. If a vaccine is rolled out early in the new year, and if it is the first major release once lockdown restrictions are lifted, it may well be the beneficiary of that. Otherwise, it could be another Tenet. Or another Mulan.

[Omega]

$300 million was the top offer for nttd, studio wanted $600, industry insiders figure $400 to $450 actual costs about where we said it be


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[dirtybenny]

$300 million was the top offer for nttd, studio wanted $600, industry insiders figure $400 to $450 actual costs about where we said it be


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$400-$450 mil costs are ridiculous, the production companies need to realize spending that much is wasted money. They made Casino Royal for $200 mil adjusted for inflation, that's about the max they should spend. I bet they'd get much closer to that figure if they ditched his royal cragginess and his inflated price tag. Not to mention their obsession with "art house" directors and actors in supporting roles who demand the earth to lower themselves to work on such "low brow dreck."