The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[katied]

The lack of a script-or having the bare bones of one-when you're only a few months out from filming-is NOT a good thing.As of right now, it's about what, 2 months or so before filming start and what have we heard, script-wise?Not.A.Lot.

[Alessandra]

I said that they DO have a habit of filming later for Bond films, and cited the fact they were filming for QoS in my backyard in April. I also added that EON seems to have a habit of filming so late, except then we get stuff like QoS. So yeah, I'm aware in general they film later for Bond. It just doesn't always work well, and it sure didn't for QoS (and they were ridiculously late filming for that. Action movies typically film a year before release). In this case they should be filming way earlier because of the importance this particular one has and because of how poorly put together QoS was.

Of course but the problem isn't the filming dates and post production, at least I think. The real problem has been the scripts not being polished or receiving too many rewrites. TWINE being the worst example.

Then look outside of Bond. STAR TREK had its release date pushed back from a Dec 2008 release to May 2009. But that extra amount of post production simply couldn't hide the fact that the script was incompetent.

I completely disagree about Star Trek. I think they did a great job with it. And pretty much every Star Trek fan I talked to thinks they did a really good job with the reboot. It's one of the very few reboots that worked well and received a lot of praise. They respected the original characters and idea and they were able to modernize it, they picked perfect actors for the part and they DID have a very good script. In fact, they're working on a second one already. (the same crew, and yes by far my favorite crew of writers, not to mention director).

I don't think the script for QoS hadn't been polished. In fact, it had been and it was ready in advance because of the writers' strike. They all bragged about Haggis re-polishing it and doing re-writes before the strike was in place, and the writers had started working on it well in advance (right after CR). Except well uhm, it sucked. The problem isn't polishing, the problem is the material you have in the first place. If you write a bad script, and the story outline is bad to begin with, there's no polishing it that will fix it. Nobody starts filming with an unpolished script. But a lot of people film with bad scripts. The problem lies in hiring incompetent writers and in filming way too late. Filming late implies a whole bunch of consequences, including not being able to re-film and re-edit certain scenes if necessary, and not having time to re-film even when in production, exactly because you're running out of time. That means you hardly ever have the best possible take on scenes and you can't even have all the needed time to make the editing the best as possible. TWINE was a MASTERPIECE compared to QoS. Which means rewrites aren't necessarily the main problem if you have a decent outline for the story to begin with. It wasn't ideal but it is most certainly an entertaining Bond movie that I always enjoy upon rewatch. It had an actual James Bond, it had the right amount of action, fight, wit, style and sexiness. In short it was a Bond movie the way they're meant to be. QoS wasn't. Despite Haggis being involved.

It's really not about polishing in the end, it's about having the right approach in the first place, it's about developing things appropriately and picking the right people to do so, and then taking your time to film, especially if you are in need of rebooting a franchise, or if, like in this case, you have a film that's vital to the survival of the franchise. They're not doing this so far with Bond 23. For starters, Mendes is not a director who should ever be near a Bond movie. An action movie director is what it takes, not another Foster (and we saw how it worked the first time around). Then, they hire Logan for the script after Morgan has a fallout with the rest of the writers. And I'm now laughing because when I said this long ago, people berated me saying it was untrue that anyone had fought over the script and there were no problems between the writers. Except I was right, simply because I never say those things unless I know they come from a more than reliable source. And more worryingly, all the elements that have been revealed so far indicate a return to EXACTLY the ways of QoS. Frankly, that is a risk the franchise can't take because it could really mean the end of Bond. Yet, casting is still going absolutely nowhere, other than unsubstantiated rumors. Craig says they have the "bones of a really good script", meaning there's outlines for a first draft at best, and they're supposed to start filming in October? What?

Trust me, unlike others I really do NOT want this to tank because I don't want to be left without a Bond franchise. I do want Babs to be taught a lesson because she deserves it for her incompetence and arrogance in thinking she could ruin something that wasn't to be changed in the first place, but that can be done just by having the movie not do too well, without tanking. (there's also a problem for MGM in that sense, because MGM can't afford to lose a penny and by the looks of it they WILL with this Bond movie, but that's another matter). So my concern is genuine not only as an extremely displeased fan who does not want to see Craig pop up as a NON-James Bond again, but also and mainly as a faithful fan of the franchise who wants to KEEP HAVING a franchise and to see an actually appropriate actor take over the role in the future.

[Thunderpussy]

I too loved the new Star Trek and haven't met anyone yet who didn't, and as for "Polishing qos", We have an expression about, I'll clean it up a bit.
" No matter how hard you Polish Poo, it's still Poo !"

[Kristatos]

I see Patrick Marber's name has been added to the list of writers. That can't be good. Marber started out as a hack comedy writer (Lee and Herring used to take the piss out of him for stealing their ideas all the time - they once had him writing a novel called The Hobbick, which obviously had nothing to do with JRR Tolkien because, look, it's spelled differently) and later found critical acclaim as a Very Serious Playwright™. It smacks of Mendes giving jobs to his luvvie friends.

[Alessandra]

I too loved the new Star Trek and haven't met anyone yet who didn't, and as for "Polishing qos", We have an expression about, I'll clean it up a bit.
" No matter how hard you Polish Poo, it's still Poo !"

LOL! very effective.That was exactly my point when I said that the polishing is not what can make a difference. That's the problem they had with Cowboys & Aliens too, they had over a DOZEN writers deal with it so when Orci & Kurtzman cleaned the mess, it was too late anyway, if you have a mess to begin with there's no polish that can fix it. Same applies to QoS that WAS polished and rewritten by Haggis, but when you have a bad story outline to begin with, no polishing will fix it. In short, without the right ingredients from the start and a LOT of time to film and to be able to get the best out of both the principal photography and the editing, there's no producing something good. Agreed about Star Trek, I think it's a manual example of how to deal with rebooting a franchise by respecting its origins and managing to make it more modern at the same time.

I see Patrick Marber's name has been added to the list of writers. That can't be good. Marber started out as a hack comedy writer (Lee and Herring used to take the piss out of him for stealing their ideas all the time - they once had him writing a novel called The Hobbick, which obviously had nothing to do with JRR Tolkien because, look, it's spelled differently) and later found critical acclaim as a Very Serious Playwright™. It smacks of Mendes giving jobs to his luvvie friends.

Good Lord, seriously? This keeps getting worse, especially from the writing standpoint. What the hell is wrong with these people?! And what is this, Bond 23 or "Mendes and all his friends"?!

[Thunderpussy]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Alessandra, In that The producers Have no respect for Bonds Origns or the past Series of Movies. Where as with Star Trek you can tell the love everyone had for the series.
As far as the Mendes Farce, sure all his lovie mates are getting jobs,I'm sure they'll have a Ball making it. Not the audiance or fans of course,Except for the "Craig Zombies" who believe any old crap he puts out is simply fantastic.
Then again all this was predicted by many of us Here, long ago.

[buffybond]

By Zombies do you mean that lot over at AJB, a might touchy if you say something about old Danners over on that sight if you ask me.

[stockslivevan]

I completely disagree about Star Trek. I think they did a great job with it. And pretty much every Star Trek fan I talked to thinks they did a really good job with the reboot. It's one of the very few reboots that worked well and received a lot of praise.

Can't say I agree with that. Most fans I speak with were very unsatisfied with the flick yet a majority of critics and fans loved it... Hey, this sounds familiar.

They respected the original characters and idea and they were able to modernize it, they picked perfect actors for the part and they DID have a very good script.

Oh boy. They took the original characters and exaggerated them to an annoying degree. In Scotty's case he was turned into Jar Jar Binks "I like this ship, it's exciting!". The only exception was nuUhura being a major improvement but that's easy since the original character wasn't developed much in the original series. Better especially when played by a talented actress like Zoe.

In fact, they're working on a second one already. (the same crew, and yes by far my favorite crew of writers, not to mention director).

Good god. I hope Lindelof has more of an influence on the script than the Transformers hacks. I especially hope Abrams lets someone else have a crack at directing it. What Trek needs is a creative team who actually have a great understanding and passion of Trek. Abrams is more of a Star Wars fan. Nothing wrong with that, except I rather he go off and make his own sci-fi adventure titled JIMMY GETS A SPACE SHIP AND BLOWS UP S*** instead of slapping the title of STAR TREK on it.

As for the stuff on QOS, all I'll say is I think they did the best they could with what they had but what they had was not good enough. In the end I find it a very middle of the road entry with notable flaws much like LTK and GE. And no, TWINE is no masterpiece in comparison to anything. I can never defend that POS. Even nuTrek was a better film than that.


And by the way, people, go see Captain America. Now.

[Thunderpussy]

BuffyBond, you can't argue with Fanatics, as they say "There are none so Blind as those who will not see " I see you scrapping away, sorry to say I've given up Now I just make jokes.
As for Cpt America Good action romp, Love red skull, ( you need a good villain, take not Eon) It slows down about two thirds of the way in,then thankfully picks up the pace again.

[Thunderpussy]

Forgot to add, I won't be watching the smurfs and no force on earth will get me in to watch C&A.

[Omega]

It also didn't help to have two sourpuss lead actors (Daniel Craig, Harrison Ford) instead of a contrast. Like Warner Bros. and Green Lantern, Universal seemed to get a decent sampling out of the sheer will of its relentless year-long ad campaign.

I think it might have worked with RDJ, a little better as a Sci-fi comedy than serious sci-fi. I don't think it ever would have done well not if they need to make $400 million to break even.

[Alessandra]

Can't say I agree with that. Most fans I speak with were very unsatisfied with the flick yet a majority of critics and fans loved it... Hey, this sounds familiar.

Haha, it does! well we're on totally opposite sides with Star Trek as well so pointless to argue, but we definitely agree on the fact the QoS material wasn't up to par at all. What worries me the most is that Bond 23 is shaping up to be exactly more of the same mediocre stuff. And I want to have a franchise left after they're done with this, so I'm seriously worried.

By Zombies do you mean that lot over at AJB, a might touchy if you say something about old Danners over on that sight if you ask me.

LOL having a hard time with someone? Like Thunderpussy said, discussing with fanatics is pointless... a few people there who are Craig fans are nice and reasonable folks with whom it is pleasant and engaging to discuss, but there's a bunch of fanatics that ruin the discussion for others, which is a shame. In general though it is a MUCH better site than most of the general Bond ones. Still... with how the fanatics react it's pointless to make up a good argument, just go with "Daniel Craig sucks" at that point, it will obtain the same effect as a reasonable critic

I love Chris Evans so of course I'll be seeing Captain America.

Meantime Cowboys & Aliens barely got the edge over the Smurfs at the weekend. I was just talking to a friend of mine and she said "well Craig should have starred in the Smurfs. He is just missing blue body paint. He could have been a perfect grumpy smurf"

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111804 ... s|FilmNews

[bjmdds]

I never watched the tv series Star Trek but I became a fan after Star Trek I was over. I always watch ST 2-6 whenever they are on with 2-4 my favorites. ST Generations did not kill off Kirk properly IMO, leaving him buried in rocks on a deserted spot? The films after that were just so-so...........UNTIL the reboot. I found it well casted, which is the main starter, and very entertaining, knowing it is a prequel, not a sequel, to the films I like.

[buffybond]

"Meantime Cowboys & Aliens barely got the edge over the Smurfs at the weekend. I was just talking to a friend of mine and she said "well Craig should have starred in the Smurfs. He is just missing blue body paint. He could have been a perfect grumpy smurf"

Careful Ale, you may get called offensive and cowardley, oh wait this aint AJB my mistake.

[bjmdds]

I just heard EON is thinking about doing another PSA, this time on STD's, and Danielle Cr-egg will be dressed as a gonorrhea bacterium! Now that's a proper PSA by the green vegetable!

[buffybond]

I just heard EON is thinking about doing another PSA, this time on STD's, and Danielle Cr-egg will be dressed as a gonorrhea bacterium! Now that's a proper PSA by the green vegetable!

I LOVE this site.

[Alessandra]

"Meantime Cowboys & Aliens barely got the edge over the Smurfs at the weekend. I was just talking to a friend of mine and she said "well Craig should have starred in the Smurfs. He is just missing blue body paint. He could have been a perfect grumpy smurf"

Careful Ale, you may get called offensive and cowardley, oh wait this aint AJB my mistake.

LOOOL well we do say this here, and honestly it is just a joke and I really don't find it offensive. Oh wait, I don't have to explain

I LOVE this site.

This is THE PLACE to be. Especially when BJ goes on one of his truly awesome "define Craig" rolls

[katied]

I just heard EON is thinking about doing another PSA, this time on STD's, and Danielle Cr-egg will be dressed as a gonorrhea bacterium! Now that's a proper PSA by the green vegetable!

That is SO wrong but I'm LOL-ing anyways.

[bjmdds]

This site is now numero uno, with talented posters, who are devoted to one common goal, NOW shared by most people, that being the detoxification of the Bond franchise from the hangover left by Danielle Cr-egg.

[katied]

Detoxification...The Bond franchise needs a Silkwood shower!